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A Price Reduction Becomes A Very Traumatic Experience For A Seller

A report from the Santa Fe New Mexican. “At the beginning of 2019, there were 1,052 homes available in the Santa Fe multiple-listing service area, which includes nearby cities such as Los Alamos and Pecos. Britt Klein of Sotheby’s International Realty, said she works with sellers to come up with a fair price. ‘Sometimes we’re the bearers of bad news as the brokers, but I hate surprises. Oftentimes we renegotiate the deal. A buyer’s going to ask for credits, a price reduction, and that becomes a very traumatic experience for a seller.'”

The Post and Courier on South Carolina. “Home sales, showings and mortgage applications have all slowed in recent months from the record pace set in 2017. The softening housing market doesn’t mean it’s a full-on buyer’s market, but it does bring a few items in buyers’ favor, according to residential real estate agent Duval Acker.”

“Because of current market conditions, she says prices won’t skyrocket as they have in previous years, the inventory of available homes won’t change much as demand continues to outpace supply, bidding wars are mostly over except in a few hotter areas, and higher interest rates are driving fewer buyers into the market. That means sellers might have to make a few concessions, and it leaves more room for negotiations.”

“‘This spring, buyers will likely see fewer bidding wars, slower price growth and less competition,’ Acker said. ‘But sellers will still have some leverage.'”

The Houston Chronicle in Texas. “Joe Mandola, president of Trendmaker Homes, sat down with a designer on a recent Tuesday afternoon. Their goal was to finalize redesigns that would lower the cost per square foot for their various lines of homes.”

“‘We’ve been going through our whole product line and truly redesigning it all,’ Mandola said of his effort to maintain healthy profit margins. ‘Not sacrificing the quality of what we’re delivering, but going back and looking at the cost side of it.'”

“‘Builders are definitely not able to increase the price of new homes the same percentage upwards as the costs are increasing,’ said Lawrence Dean, Houston’s regional director of Metrostudy. As a result, he said, builders are having to receive incentives or accept a smaller profit margin per home.”

“‘We had 30,000 new home starts in 2018. We expect to see almost the same amount, perhaps with a slight decline, in 2019,’ he said. And if costs continue to outpace home prices, many more homebuilders may be going back to the drawing board to make their plans more cost efficient.”

“‘Builders are having to get more creative,’ Dean said. ‘Or they just have to accept that they’ll make a smaller margin per home and adjust their business accordingly.'”

From the Los Angeles Times. “Allen Iverson’s former home, which he lost to foreclosure, has traded hands in Georgia for a dirt-cheap $725,000. Wells Fargo & Co. took ownership of the estate in 2017 after suing the Hall of Famer for failing to make mortgage payments on the property, according to reports. Iverson paid $2.19 million for the place in 2006, records show.”

“No stranger to foreclosure, Iverson has also lost homes in Atlanta and Denver.”

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  1. “Because of current market conditions, she says prices won’t skyrocket as they have in previous years, the inventory of available homes won’t change much as demand continues to outpace supply, bidding wars are mostly over except in a few hotter areas, and higher interest rates are driving fewer buyers into the market.

    Realtors are liars. If Duval was about fiduciary duty instead of Always Be Closing, she’d inform her “clients” (marks) that prices are going to crater, inventory is going to soar (along with foreclosures), creditworthy buyers are going to be scarcer than work boots at a Hillary Clinton rally, and the “winners” of the bidding wars of yesteryear have their tickets for the express train to Schlongville.

  2. This was posted last night:

    Jingle Male

    “I maintain the point that lending today is much tighter and of greater quality than in 2006. There are very few 100% LTV “fog a mirror” loans today.”

    “Sure, the market may be turning, a peak may have been reached, but the magnitude of the correction will be much than the 2008-2012 correction.”

    “The change today is mostly the result of a buyer’s weariness in this market. The buyers I know are continuing to pile money into savings and are ready to acquire a house when conditions are more favorable.”

    “That situation is completely different than 2008 when bank owned properties when begging for a year.”

    Without going into how much is wrong here, ( I regularly post reports of foreclosures sitting around for many years), what Jingle never got was this:

    ‘prices won’t skyrocket as they have in previous years…bidding wars are mostly over’

    Prices of shacks should never skyrocket. There should never be bidding wars. What Jingle and so many others said in the past were signs of strength in the market, were actually signs of weakness. People are making huge speculative mistakes. And when those come undone, as we are seeing now, people get punished.

    1. “I maintain the point that lending today is much tighter and of greater quality than in 2006. There are very few 100% LTV “fog a mirror” loans today.”

      I don’t see it. Recent FB story from a friend whom works on an annual income of approx 60k/yr supporting a family of soon to be 4. Qualified for a 500k loan with 3.5% down. How is that different than 2006? The lenders are still setting up failure loans for any willing to accept them. All a bunch of bs!

      1. Yeah, quietly non-banks have taken the majority of loans. Most are refinances, BTW. These guys have no regulation. And Ginnie Mae recently announced the first ever stress tests. Ride to the rescue gubberment! Mel Watt is gone, in disgrace.

        https://wlos.com/news/local/ig-report-ex-housing-agency-director-watt-misused-position

        You can’t make horses drink water.

        May 25, 2018

        “In his corner of American finance, where hard selling meets hard luck, Angelo Christian is a star. Each time Christian sells a home loan, the company he works for, American Financial Network Inc., takes as much as 5 percent. Many of Christian’s customers have no savings, poor credit, or low income—sometimes all three. Some are like Joseph Taylor, a corrections officer who saw Christian’s roadside billboard touting zero-down mortgages. Taylor had recently filed for bankruptcy because of his $25,000 in credit card debt. But he just bought his first home for $120,000 with a zero-down loan from Christian’s company. Monthly debt payments now eat up half his take-home pay. ‘If he can help me, he can help anyone,’ Taylor says. ‘My credit history was just horrible.’”

        “Christian can do this kind of deal because he is, in effect, making the loan on behalf of the federal government through its most important affordable housing program. It’s a sweet deal: He gets his nearly risk-free commission. Taylor puts no money down. If things go south, the government ultimately bears the risk. Many borrowers ‘are living paycheck to paycheck and, if they lose their jobs, they go into default immediately,’ says John Burns, a housing consultant.”

        http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=10443

      2. My households income modest but still lots more than that. Recently did a normal prequal with a normal small bank for less than that cuz I wasn’t interested in looking at more so that the temptation would be eliminated to borrow so much. Didn’t get pushed into anything further by the bank but must’ve gotten onto lists of mortgage applications and started getting all kinds of direct mail for debt products including a letter implying I qualify for no money down VA loans when I do not. I feel like the debt industry was ready and waiting to offer me plenty in case more regular underwriting didn’t get me what I needed and I never even visited a loan officer just used my damned regular bank!

      3. A friend bought a ~500K house about a year ago when he found out his girlfriend was pregnant, so he scrambled to put a ring on it and buy a nest. Turns out hes taking a job a few hundred miles away now and just moved out. Govt job so I think theyre covered on the transfer even though the market has gone stale. She’s probably never made more than minimum wage in her life, both early 30s. Hes a smart guy but likes his alcohol too much. Probably makes 80K/year and the only way to move up salary wise is to jump around like he’s doing but theyre moving from a place with a very relaxed pace of life to the big city where spending hours in traffic everyday is the norm, even on weekends.

        1. “God ain’t made a man that could stand up to the power that lays between a woman’s thighs. You see, the hold that little cooter has on a man’s life is unbreakable. It can bring a strong man to his knees.” -Prentice Ritter, about why he lives on the range.

          3. It really does lower the generally high intelligence and respect on here. My case is the HUSBAND who is an idiot, besides, and I can tell you it ain’t nothing between his legs that’s keeping me from telling him that to buy now would be STUPID. Perhaps the issue is instead that men cannot bring themselves to actually talk to women like they’e PEOPLE and say, listen, honey, I understand the desire to settle in, but here’s why that’s not a good idea right now. Let me show you the numbers. Men are supposed to be good with math right?! I’ve been trying to tell hubs and indeed I bet if I were a dude he’d believe me 😉

          4. I think it’s rather oversimplified to always blame it on the woman. I know men who are dumb and irrational about money, and I know highly sensible women who aren’t (my wife fits in the latter category).

          5. “God ain’t made a man that could stand up to the power that lays between a woman’s thighs.”

            The exception is homosexuals. I’m not sure what makes them eager to buy, given the nesting instinct isn’t likely to be a driver.

          6. PS I agree with the posters who railed against the stereotype of the wannabe mom haranguing her henpecked husband into buying a home they cannot afford. It doesn’t fit our household.

            But apparently a significant share of the human population is wired to think home ownership is necessary to start a family. This is reflected in many personal anecdotes posted here, real estate ads, and other sources. Apparently the stereotype is so strong in China that men who don’t own homes can’t marry.

            However, there are certainly exceptions, such as my ex-BIL badgering my sister into buying the lakehouse at the end of 2006, near the first bubble peak.

      4. Annual income of approx 60k/yr supporting a family of soon to be 4. Qualified for a 500k loan with 3.5% down.

        That’s about $4,000 a month take home. With a $3,500k a month payment including tax, PMI, etc. What lender is offering over 50% DTI?

        1. “With a $3,500k a month payment including tax, PMI, etc. What lender is offering over 50% DTI?”

          Also his HOA as it is a condo… I have yet to pry that piece of information from him but he did state that the lender he was working with offered even more at a higher interest rate. Glad he didn’t opt for that.

        2. “What lender is offering over 50% DTI?”

          Check out the FicoForums at Myfico.com – full of borrowers and mortgage brokers suggesting ways around 50% DTI. Very disturbing. One borrower was at 57% DTI, with brokers assuring the poster they could get their loan. I read a broker saying their company allowed 55% DTI on FHA loans, with 3.5% down. Lots of “fixes” like artificially lowering the insurance premiums to qualify, etc.

      5. Less people put 20% down today than they did in 2006.

        I agree that lending was more insane in 2004-2006 than today’s insane standards, but that doesn’t much less dangerous.

    2. Yep. But human psychology is what it is. When people start making these speculative mistakes others deeply feel that FOMO. In 2005 it almost destroyed me as a person feeling against all others including spouse that this was insane and bore no connection to fundamental realities. This time there is at least some precedent for some people to recall so it’s less painful but it is still soooo striking to watch people just throw up their hands and say well you gotta live somewhere and you can’t time the market so just pay whatever they’re asking it’ll be fine. Crazy.

      1. “well you gotta live somewhere“

        Exactly the words my friend said after my shock to his sadly spoken news that he HAD to buy because his wife insisted they must before the new addition to the family. He is one of the lower wage earning friends I have and he is actually aware of the current bubble / over priced market but was at the mercy of satisfying his wife’s demands vs other immediate outcomes. Unfortunately it’s the beginning of a much more painful future outcome.

        1. My hubs is so eager to buy that he’s thinking it’s a good idea to put ourselves in a position of having uncomfortably low reserves in liquid form just to lower the monthly payments to a comfortable level lol. When I try to explain to him that this is not a good idea he rolls his eyes and tells me I’m just being “fearful”

          1. “…having uncomfortably low reserves in liquid form just to lower the monthly payments…”

            I kept six-months of fixed expenses in reserve. I never had to fall back on it, but I slept well. I also had a “conforming mortgage,” so no penalties for additional principal.

          2. IKR? I even tell him listen honey we can always add payments to reduce principal as desired but it wouldn’t be good to chuck almost all the reserves into the mortgage! He’s got the “yeah, the wife is talking, I don’t need to listen” thing happening too often.

        2. Looked at some open houses in Oregon yesterday. The house I was looking at was $475k, same thing in San Diego would have gone for $800k. Realtor said “You’re smart for waiting, if you bought last year you would have lost money.”

          I’ve rented all my life, almost gave into the pressure and bought a condo in 2005 but this blog and other sources reminded me that I wasn’t the only skeptical human in America. Now my 3yo boy wants a dog and a yard, and I’m finally giving in. But not until winter.

          Hopefully it drops fast and hard by the end of the year, but if not, I’m going to buy with the understanding that I’m going to lose some money and I don’t care. Renting sucks even if buying is a bad financial decision.

          2. First thing is to identify the area where you want to live especially the school district. Then you need to stay busy visiting homes for sale, discover what you like and don’t like about them. Keep notes with numbers too. The worst time to buy is during the summer when the kids are out of school because prices are higher. Good luck to you!

          3. I don’t want to say it’s not a reasonable choice to decide to suck it up and buy with the understanding that a loss might happen, I just would like to say that being house-poor and/or stuck in a house or town you don’t like is not fun. So long as it wouldn’t hurt to make the payments, then losing some if you needed to sell (and being sure you’d have enough to bring to the closing if you DID have to for some reason sell at a loss) sounds completely reasonable as a lifestyle choice. But just for an anecdotal data point, I can say that my kids who grew all the way up with us renting ended up getting perspectives on the world they never would have if we’d bought a place. No dogs though, but then I’m allergic so I was happy to have the excuse of no yard to keep one 😉

          4. my 3yo boy wants a dog and a yard, and I’m finally giving in…I’m going to lose some money and I don’t care.

            Name the dog “Million”.

            Math is hard.

          5. Name the dog “Million”.

            “Rolex” is cute, more on the order of expected losses, and a permanent reminder of what could have been bought.

          6. If she buys a $500,000 house with borrowed money today, she will spend a million more than me for housing over the next 30 years.

          8. I was looking at it with respect to my personal situation in which we intend to put at least 20% down and my fear of watching some or all of that down payment evaporate.

          9. My husband argues that our son’s childhood is passing by as we rent and we have compelling safety reasons for needing a home of our own. Again, I don’t want to see our down payment effectively evaporate.

          10. needing a home of our own

            I suppose that “need” makes you the prey. I grew up in a rented house that was plenty “home” enough. I suppose my father could have bought it but he was more interested in financial security.

            I live on a boat as much as I can but I do own a house now. I paid about 1/3 yearly earnings, from savings. That settled, my yearly housing costs are less than $3K. Now if a young family earning $80K buys a $500K house they will pay over $1 million with interest, depreciation, taxes, insurance over 30 years. That’s 100% of their take home pay for 20 years. It is financial suicide. Your math may vary. This housing bubble has made houses unaffordable (for the sane).

            I refused to participate or to cry. I found a work around. By the way, I raised four kids and they never cared much about the house or if it was “owned”.

      2. Why not just hold onto your cash until houses go on sale, especially at this late stage of the cycle when prices are evidently already beginning to drop in many locales?

        1. I’ll show him the post lol but when I try to show him articles/evidence his eyes glaze. Even when I show him numbers for our own almost purchases in a number of instances in the past to indicate we’d at best have broken even even if holding til now he doesn’t want to look. I’m guessing he’s got company

      3. Sounds a little bit like, “You gotta roll with it.” – Caitlin Vestal

        Did I beat apartment 401 to the punch on that one?

    3. “Sure, the market may be turning, a peak may have been reached, but the magnitude of the correction will be much than the 2008-2012 correction.”

      It’s easy to forget that the really big losses in the 2008-2012 period did not appear until the wheels fell off Wall Street. None of what was eventually going to happen was evident as of 2006, which was at the same phase of the cycle where we are today, with a booming economy facing dark clouds on the residential real estate horizon.

        1. Actually, eye read/inferred that as: “… the magnitude of the correction will be much < (less) than the 2008-2012 correction.”

          Note: the "correction" will involve PRICE$ that are @ least x2-4 what was i$$ued in HBBlowout #1

      2. But at least in my area I could feel it in 2005 after a crazy run up from 1999. There was just way too much bs from RE saying if you don’t buy now you’ll be priced out forever. Easier to question that in the Midwest when I was on a potential career trajectory of decent advancement— how could that be?! You mean in 10 years people with twice median income won’t get to buy shacks here? Now there’s somewhat different dynamic because the surrounding less desirable areas have been developed considerably more, so the story is well this town is just soooo desirable that only the very wealthy can live here. Which of course makes it far less desirable to me anyhow lol. It’s soooo overrated here ….

    4. The buyers I know are continuing to pile money into savings and are ready to acquire a house when conditions are more favorable.”

      That part seems true at least for us. We are willing to acquire a house when the bubble bursts.

      1. Apparently much of America is pretty thin on saved money.

        A growing number of Americans have more credit-card debt than savings
        By Maria LaMagna
        Published: Feb 13, 2019 3:03 p.m. ET

        Some say now is a great time to pay off debt
        20th Century Fox/Courtesy Everett Collection
        More Americans are looking at their credit card bill and getting stressed by what they see.

        The economy may be better, and unemployment may be lower. But that doesn’t mean American consumers are doing any better with their debts.

        That’s according to a new survey of 1,000 people from the personal-finance company Bankrate. It found that 29% of Americans have more credit-card debt than they do emergency savings. And the problem is getting worse.

        In 2018, 21% said they had more credit-card debt than emergency savings. And in 2015, 22% said they had more credit-card debt.

        So what gives?

        This disturbing trend is “evidence of a lot of the strain households are under,” said Greg McBride, the chief financial analyst at Bankrate. Some 41.2% of households carry credit-card debt and the average amount is $5,700, according to personal-finance website ValuePenguin.
        …

  3. ‘Builders are definitely not able to increase the price of new homes the same percentage upwards as the costs are increasing,’ said Lawrence Dean, Houston’s regional director of Metrostudy. As a result, he said, builders are having to receive incentives or accept a smaller profit margin per home.”’

    “‘We had 30,000 new home starts in 2018. We expect to see almost the same amount, perhaps with a slight decline, in 2019,’ he said. And if costs continue to outpace home prices, many more homebuilders may be going back to the drawing board to make their plans more cost efficient’

    And like the previous comment, almost no one realizes this means recent Houston buyers are being shoved underwater. It’s going on in Dallas and Orange County, etc. Right out in public, mass defaults are being set up. How do I know? I posted probably several hundred articles on the same phenomenon last decade.

  5. The Houston Chronicle in Texas. “Joe Mandola, president of Trendmaker Homes, sat down with a designer on a recent Tuesday afternoon. Their goal was to finalize redesigns that would lower the cost per square foot for their various lines of homes.”

    Memo to Joe and Designer Boy: once the coming tidal wave of foreclosures swamps the FBs, you’ll realize there’s no way in hell you can “finalize redesigns” that are cheaper per square foot than the millions of foreclosures that will be going begging for creditworthy buyers. I would start stocking up on cheap, strong alcohol if I were you.

    1. “The total in arrears is about twice the amount the U.S. Treasury provided to bail out the auto industry during the last recession.”

      Where are the real rankings, e.g., by race, by gender, etc? How many of these defaulters are currently employed with the federal government?

  7. “Allen Iverson’s former home, which he lost to foreclosure, has traded hands in Georgia for a dirt-cheap $725,000. Wells Fargo & Co. took ownership of the estate in 2017 after suing the Hall of Famer for failing to make mortgage payments on the property, according to reports. Iverson paid $2.19 million for the place in 2006, records show.”

    I know it’s only one data point, but evidently the same property value dropped by $2.19 to $0.725 million over successive repeat sales thirteen years apart, a 67% haircut.

    Are we seeing the first evidence here of the historic bubble’s full trajectory?

    1. I have a really hard time figuring what reasonable prices are for shacks now given the two teir aspect to the bubble , the 1996 to 2006-8 bubble, the somewhat shocking decline 2009-2011 and then bubble 2 from 2012-now.

      1. ‘I have a really hard time figuring what reasonable prices are for shacks now’

        I have good news for you which provides a way out of this mess. You don’t have to figure it out, at least not on your own. Milton Friedman gave us the example of the pencil. An common, inexpensive product. It requires wood, lead, paint, metal to hold the eraser and rubber for the eraser. Yet the producers of these materials don’t plan what the costs will be. The producers don’t hold summits to set prices. The markets, by way of thousands of different participants making self-benefiting decisions set the prices. These prices fluctuate, but eventually find their equilibrium. Price is the primary mechanism to making the entire process work, Friedman said. It send directions to all the parties, when to make more or less. When to innovate, etc.

        Our problem with shacks is there are many entities which have distorted the price. And front and center is the lending industry. When the price of money is distorted, it send all sorts of inaccurate direction to everyone involved. (That’s how we end up with gluts of luxury, BTW). And then there is risk. In a market for money, if you had a million bucks, would you loan it out at 4.5% for 30 years with 3% down? Probably not. Yet our entire shack loan industry is built around every higher risk, which distorts the critical prices year after year.

        Good examples of all this is what’s happening in the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong and China. Having gone down this path for far too long, now the governments are trying to unwind the distortions – and watch the money be lost hand over fist! And they are really making minor adjustments, not leaving the markets to sort themselves out. Rather they are trying to achieve the fantasy of “soft-landing.”

        In short: Bernanke doesn’t know what a shack should cost: he never did. He acted instead to use shack prices as a sort of “wealth effect.” (And foam the runway for banks, but anyway). The only logical way forward on shack prices is to let the market determine it. Until then, it’s a crap shoot.

          2. “Builders are definitely not able to increase the price of new homes the same percentage upwards as the costs are increasing”

            It doesn’t seem to be labor costs Lawrence. It doesn’t seem to be material costs either. What might it be?

        2. Yes, Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” of free markets is the primary mechanism for true price discovery. Sound money is a necessary and sufficient condition, else gov’t. can (and does) set the value of (e.g. “print”) fiat, aka paper, or “monopoly” money at their whim.

          With a command and control, centrally planned economy, and goal for the Greater (progressive) Society, I might add, we get, as expected, massive price distortions, exponentially growing debt burdens, a host of social ills, and a multitude of other unintended consequences and bad outcomes. Just look at gov’t. guaranteed student loans, mortgages, healthcare, etc. Based on history, the statist approach never ends well; and yet, “here I am stuck in the middle with you.” Let’s “hope for change” (wait, “hope and change?”), before we get much farther down this socialist rabbit hole, else next stop = Venezuela. Hey, if you think I’m joking, just look at Puerto “Rico”, Illinois, New York, California, most any large, city in the U.S., sanctuary status or not. I personally would like not to see the U.S. devolve into 3rd world/banana republic status. Are you with me?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMAIsqvTh7g
          Stuck in the Middle with you – Stealers Wheel

          Sven Henrich | Twitter | January 20th, 2019
          “10 years of central bank easy money policies have encouraged vast debt expansion while inflating assets owned predominantly by the few with stagnant wages/wealth for the rest. Central bankers call this success.”

          “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand” – Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate Economist

          “One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” – Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate Economist

          “The enduring lesson of the 20th century is that socialism is a failure, and free markets are a success. But the politicians keep advocating just a little more socialism.” – Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate Economist

          “It is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promised a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing.” – Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate Economist

          1. “You cannot e$cape the re$pon$ibility of tomorrow by evading it today” … A. Lincoln, split.rail fence builder

        3. Sure, but I’m just trying to gauge how big a hit I might take if I lose this crapshoot so I can decide if I want to just sit out :/ Hubs is not making this easy though, he doesn’t care, he wants a picket fence and blames me for not having one, it’s very unpleasant. Gonna suck whether he ‘wins’ or not, this is what is left to us in this world of speculation for shelter…

          1. Oh darn I missed an OH for a 1955 built shack with probably lead in the water lines (it’s an AA MI thing, they’re allegedly working on it now lol!) that someone tidied up after buying it for 100K less than current asking price a few months ago! and it’s all of 1100 sf, but it has a (probably radon-filled, they all are around here, few people have installed mitigation systems so far on their older shacks) full basement and a tiny yard. “Midcentury modern” lol.

        4. At some point, U.S. federal government officials decided it was perfectly acceptable to completely abolish the role of the market in establishing a fair price of housing which balanced what buyers could afford with seller construction costs. Instead, all kinds of implicit and explicit subsidies have been used to goose housing prices and attract a hugh influx of specuvestors trying to capitalize on all the government gravy sloshing around in the REIC hog trough.

  8. Isn’t the bear market merely a ghost of Christmas past from the 2018 holiday season?

    In a bear market, the best offense is a good defense
    By MarketWatch
    Published: Feb 16, 2019 5:05 p.m. ET
    Courtesy Everett Collection

    The trouble with bear markets is that stock investors typically don’t know they’re in one until they’re in one. Investment advisers may also be taken by surprise. That’s why it’s crucial to have realistic expectations of the market, especially when it comes to volatility and risk.
    …

  9. “A buyer’s going to ask for credits, a price reduction, and that becomes a very traumatic experience for a seller.”

    …a very traumatic experience for an upside down seller.

    1. Even with the subsidies from the trade wars? Last I checked, taxpayers forked over >$12 bill. winning!

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