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New York Is A Well-Evolved Luxury Market, But There Has Been A Lot Of Unsold Stock

A report from the Wall Street Journal on New York. “An investment firm owned by Japan’s SoftBank Group Corp. bought the defaulted mortgage on a downtown luxury condo tower, the latest sign that a wave of investors is scavenging the wreckage of Manhattan’s condo glut. Fortress Investment Group LLC paid about $230 million for the defaulted mortgage for 125 Greenwich Street, an 88-story residential building in the Financial District, according to the debt’s seller, investment firm BH3. BH3 was moving to foreclose on the property, which is under construction but mostly completed. By buying the loan, Fortress is also inheriting the right to continue the foreclosure lawsuit.”

“A surge in new construction has created a glut of luxury condominiums in Manhattan. That, in turn, has created an opening for investors to bail out developers at high interest rates, buy defaulted loans or take over struggling projects for bargain prices. ‘Condo inventory loans’—mortgages to refinance projects with a large number of unsold apartments—have become common.”

“A September study by listings site StreetEasy found that more than a quarter of the 16,242 New York City condos built since 2013 hadn’t found a buyer. BH3’s co-founder Gregory Freedman said he expects more opportunities to buy distressed debt in Manhattan’s condo market, as well as retail spaces and rent-stabilized apartments. ‘History repeats itself, and everything is cyclical,’ Mr. Freedman said.”

The Sunday Times. “Occupying an entire block of midtown Manhattan, the Waldorf Astoria New York has been the hotel of choice for presidents, royalty and A-list celebrities since it opened in 1931. It was bought in 2015 by Anbang International, a Chinese company, for $1.95 billion and its doors have been firmly shut since 2017. The reopening, now expected in 2021, is a year behind schedule but the first batch of residential apartments that will be part of the exclusive hotel’s new look go on sale next week.”

“In a way, the Waldorf Astoria has always been half-hotel, half-residence, but its billion-dollar renovation will make it official. The Towers will have 375 luxury apartments and there will be an equal number of hotel rooms. Two thirds of the flats will have no more than two bedrooms and prices for studios start from £1.31 million.”

“‘Over the past ten years, there’s been this fight for differentiation,’ says Liam Bailey, the head of research at Knight Frank, the agency marketing the residences in the UK. ‘For the Waldorf, it’s about the heritage and backstory. The New York market is a well-evolved luxury market, but there has been a lot of unsold stock in 2018/19.'”

From Variety. “Nine million dollars may buy a magnificent mansion just about anywhere in the world, but it’s also the amount by which billionaire businessman Vincent Viola recently chopped the asking price for his unapologetically lavish, six-floor townhouse on New York City’s tony Upper East Side. The titanic spread was originally listed at an almighty $114 million before the price plummeted to $88 million, and the current, still heart-stopping asking price of $79 million means the property remains the most expensive townhouse available on the open market in Manhattan.”

From Scarsdale 10583. “Thinking of a move to the city or buying a pied a terre? Before jumping in, There’s lots to learn about the Manhattan market. We spoke to Geri Grobman, a realtor with Corcoran, to get answers to questions many suburbanites might have about NYC real estate.”

“How did the 2018 and 2019 Manhattan real estate market do? 2018 and 2019 were tough years for the NYC real estate market. An oversupply of high-end apartments, tougher tax laws, and an overall uncertainty led to a purchasing slow down not seen since 2009.”

“Do you think that sellers are more negotiable now than previously? I think that sellers are more realistic about the market and what their property is currently worth resulting in more deals closing now. Negotiations may depend on many factors, for example, how much the seller wants or needs to sell, how long the apartment has been on the market, and the amount of inventory available on the market, or even in a specific building.”

From 68 Square Feet. “It’s been a busy 2020 so far for Real Housewives of New York alum Bethenny Frankel, who’s finally unloaded two properties: her Soho condo and one of her Hamptons retreats. The Post reported last week that Frankel sold her seven-bedroom residence in Bridgehampton for $2.28 million after listing it for $2.99 million. It’s a good thing she made a slight profit there because her Soho condo ended up selling for a significant loss.”

“After almost three years on the market, Frankel sold her two-bedroom apartment at 22 Mercer Street for $3.65 million, the Observer reported last month. That’s a $550,000 loss compared to the $4.2 million she paid for the pad in 2014—and more if you factor in what she spent on an extensive renovation.”

From Newsday. “Nassau County is moving to sell the property of the former Long Beach Motor Inn in Island Park to private developers at a $2 million loss after scrapping plans to build more than 90 units of affordable housing on the site. The county purchased the site for $3.6 million in 2017 after condemning it during the administration of former County Executive Edward Mangano.”

“Nassau County Executive Laura Curran, after gaining legislative approval last week, plans to sell the parcel to developers for $1.15 million. Officials said the county paid $3.6 million for the property. The owners had asked for $10 million, based on the ‘highest and best use,’ a common real estate measure of value, even though it was appraised post-Sandy for as little as $750,000.”

“Legis. Siela Bynoe (D-Westbury) called the sale ‘a missed opportunity’ to build housing for low and moderate income residents. ‘This just seems like a loser for us,’ said Bynoe. ‘We purchased this property at $3.6 million and now we’re selling it at $1.1 million.'”

The New York Post. “Famed TV host Dick Cavett has just slashed the price of his oceanfront estate in the Hamptons even further. The Montauk property at 176 Deforest Road is now on the market for a mere $27.95 million. That’s less than half of its original asking price of $62 million.”

“After first hitting the market for $62 million in June 2017, Tick Hall’s price was cut to $48.5 million in August 2018. By January 2019, it was dropped again to $33.95 million. It is now priced at $27.95 million, said listing broker Gary DePersia, of Corcoran.”

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This Post Has 195 Comments

  1. ‘This just seems like a loser for us…We purchased this property at $3.6 million and now we’re selling it at $1.1 million’

    Pick your definitions of a mania. Sky high prices tumbling. Oversupply. Losses, foreclosure, New York City meets them all.

    1. “Do you think that sellers are more negotiable now than previously? I think that sellers are more realistic about the market and what their property is currently worth resulting in more deals closing now.”

      Perhaps the Wall Street sharks and foreign investors are more realistic, which is why you see price declines in luxury condos. But how about the person in Scarsdale who is thinking of moving to the city or buying a pied a terre? Are they realistic about selling their own house?

      The problem with NY/SF/Bos/Etc is the combination of bubble and shortage. Is it possible that a bursting bubble in new construction for the uber wealthy can work its way down, domino-style, to more affordable housing for regular people? Because I can tell you that Brooklyn rents are still very high.

      1. But how about the person in Scarsdale who is thinking of moving to the city or buying a pied a terre?

        Isn’t moving from Scarsdale to NYC like jumping out the frying pan and into the fire? My BIL and SIL who have a home in Scarsdale bought a pied a terre in Dallas to escape NY taxes.

      2. “Perhaps the Wall Street sharks and foreign investors are more realistic, which is why you see price declines in luxury condos.”

        People with money have access to financial newsletters from well established insiders who have access to valuable information. That said: “If your financial arm is stuck in the proverbial condo, word on the street is to cut it off with your pocket knife before sundown and run, don’t look back, just phuc’n run!”

    2. Somethin a little fishy on this 3.5m county sale. They ended up paying over 4x what the courts said price of it. Corrupt politics at work courtesy of the tax payers perhaps?

      “After a six-year legal battle, Nassau County Supreme Court Condemnation Justice Thomas Adams signed an order to turn the Long Beach Motor Inn on Austin Boulevard over to Nassau County on May 28, ending the effort by Island Park residents and the Island Park Civic Association to close the motel.

      According to Brian Nevin, senior policy advisor and communications director for Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano, the county will be able to take over the motel for $750,000.”

      https://www.liherald.com/stories/Long-Beach-Motor-Inn-now-in-countys-hands,68436

  2. I guess soon enough we’ll add coronavirus to the reasons for NYC luxury real estate to collapse.

    The Financial Times
    FTfm Coronavirus
    Fund groups suffer heavy outflows as coronavirus spreads
    Asset managers face share price falls and operational challenges to client-facing services
    People wearing protective face masks in Milan, Italy, one of the countries worst hit by the virus © MARCO OTTICO/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
    Chris Flood, Attracta Mooney, Siobhan Riding and Peter Smith 6 hours ago

    A violent correction across global markets battered investment managers last week as the rapid spread of coronavirus caused severe disruption to business activity worldwide.

    Asset managers suffered accelerating fund outflows, hefty share price falls and operational challenges to their client-facing work as companies banned travel to the countries worst hit by the virus.

    Share prices of asset management companies were hammered, with FTSE 100 group M&G down nearly a fifth over the last week, with Standard Life Aberdeen and Schroders off about 15 per cent.

    In the US, BlackRock and Invesco each plunged about 18 per cent in a week, with T Rowe Price and Franklin Resources 14 per cent.

    “The risk of global recession is rising,” said Michael Hartnett, chief investment strategist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. The bank expects worldwide corporate earnings per share to shrink 3.5 per cent this year and global economic growth to slow to 2.8 per cent, the lowest since 2009.

    Vanguard, the world’s second-largest asset manager, has banned business travel to nine countries including Italy, China, Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore. Staff who return from these locations must work remotely for 14 days.

    Fidelity International banned all travel between countries, except for “business-critical meetings” and where possible has swapped external meetings for video or conference calls.
    …

    1. ‘National Bank economist Warren Lovely published a depressing report on the fragility of the loonie Thursday, one that helps explain the domestic currency’s weakness in recent days.’

      “Canada has run a [current account] deficit for 45 consecutive quarters now (dating back to the end of 2008), racking up a combined shortfall of C$628 billion along the way… a structural trade/current account deficit means Canada must continue importing capital from abroad, akin to drawing on a heavily used credit line supplied by non-resident investors … make no mistake, the C$ is no safe haven … not now, not ever. And the combination of heightened global policy uncertainty and some made-in-Canada challenges (including on resource development and related infrastructure) has led to a sea-change in how investors approach Canada. No more are they indiscriminate buyers of our paper. Last year, Canadian equities saw their first net divestment by non-residents since 2007. Meanwhile, foreign holdings of C$-denominated bonds have been cut almost C$40 billion (or 7.5%) from their late-2017 peak.”

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-make-no-mistake-the-c-is-no-safe-haven-not-now-not-ever/

      1. ‘No more are they indiscriminate buyers of our paper’

        Oh dear…

        ‘some made-in-Canada challenges’

        I bought some ketchup flavored potato chips when I was driving through Canada in 2001. I always wondered why that didn’t catch on down south.

          5. Chips are high falutin’ for DebtDonkeys. They’re on a steady diet of CraterTaters.

      2. “…the fragility of the loonie…”

        The U.S. federal reserve bullied the G8 to “print baby, print” lockstep back in 2008, which left them vulnerable since their economies are not as diverse nor fertile ground for innovation.

    2. The Financial Times
      Coronavirus
      South Korean coronavirus cases rise as tech supply chain hit
      US, Australia and Thailand report first deaths from global outbreak
      …

      1. Was in the sauna after a workout today, and shared it with an ER doc. A lively conversation arose about the virus. The interesting takeaway for me was this: They are basically not blood testing anyone, because if they do they have to track and quarantine, and the blood test is not remotely reliable. The message was that there a ton more cases out there, but they are unconfirmed due to protocol. He wasn’t an alarmist. He felt the flu was often more virulent, but his message certainly caught my attention.

  3. Tehran is a ghost town haunted by rumours of 200 coronavirus dead

    ‘For the past week I have watched Tehran become a ghost town after the coronavirus hit. It has infected thousands across the country and killed at least 210, according to the country’s health service.’

    ‘Museums and schools are closed as the government tries to combat the virus — while being accused of downplaying the risks. Unofficial figures, disputed by the state, suggest that 83,000 might be infected, with more than 200 dead.’

    ‘The great mansions of the city’s north are shuttered and the bazaar is eerily quiet. Friday prayers were cancelled for the first time since the Islamic Revolution 41 years ago.’

    ‘Wandering the city, I have looked through the windows of empty carpet shops and made small talk with bored sales assistants. On Friday morning I walked on to a flyover, usually choked with traffic, and looked out across the almost empty streets, replaying in my mind the opening credits from every disaster movie ever made. I was the only British journalist in Tehran, and it looked like I would be for a while.’

    ‘As the week drew on, the streets became quieter. Shopkeepers in the grand bazaar, who had been expecting a bumper month ahead of Persian new year next month, were devastated. “First the sanctions, now this,” said one. “Our sales are the lowest they’ve been.”

    ‘Pharmacies, crowded at first, grew quiet as stocks of masks sold out. Most of the people who worked in them sported the hi-tech N95 model, breathing noisily like Darth Vader. On the streets and on public transport people seemed increasingly jumpy — they stood far away from each other and covered their faces. Someone wrote on Twitter that sneezing on the Tehran metro was like shouting Allahu akbar on the New York subway.’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tehran-is-a-ghost-town-haunted-by-rumours-of-200-coronavirus-dead-rz8bwcnhd

    1. “Someone wrote on Twitter that sneezing on the Tehran metro was like shouting Allahu akbar on the New York subway.”

      Gotta LMFAO; sorry!

    2. Yet the “official” coronavirus numbers show 54 dead in Iran barely more than 1/4 of this report. This seems to be the case all over. And China’s numbers? Pffft. Those should just be thrown out the window.

      Bill Gates is calling this a “once-in-a-century” plague, yet even he’s saying 1% death rate which is lower than any of the official death rates posted. Lots of misinformation to weed through.

      I like to go with my gut. Does anybody really think a country like China would intentionally halt their economy and quarantine over 500 million people for a virus that, at the time, had only killed around 20 people? Hell no.

      The real problem with this virus is the extended incubation period and the asymptomatic spread. That guarantees large numbers infected. It’s also said to be airborne, though our CDC denies that. The same CDC who is telling us not to wear masks and that it’s not a pandemic. Unless there is some major breakthrough, this virus seems poised to tear through every single community in every country it has spread to.

      1. Another problem with the virus: We’ve barely begun testing for it within the U.S. What we learn from expanded testing may not be reassuring.

      2. “…I like to go with my gut….”

        My gut is wondering if coronavirus will be used to provide cover for near zero or even negative interest rates?

        If situation worsens, I am sure corporations will use as excuse to cut staff.

        Just a matter of time before the REIConplex touts CoronaVirus as a ‘once in a century time to buy’.

        1. It’s going to be hard to generate foot traffic at open houses this spring. Luckily we live in the online marketing era!

          1. Coronavirus Fears Are Driving Interest Rates Down, a Bad Omen for the Economy
            Very low rates mean there is little room to maneuver if economic conditions get worse.
            By Neil Irwin
            Feb. 28, 2020
            A nearly empty street in Beijing this month. Fears of what would happen to the U.S. economy if public health precautions similarly kept people at home have rippled through the financial markets.
            Credit…Kevin Frayer/Getty Images

            The development with the most profound signal about the future of the global economy has not been the steep drop in the stock market over the last week. Instead, it’s what has been happening in the bond markets.

            Global interest rates are plunging. Partly this reflects the general rush to safe investments that takes place whenever the world economy looks dangerous. But it also reflects expectations that the Federal Reserve and other central banks will cut interest rates or take other action to try to contain the economic damage of coronavirus.

            That amounts to a powerful and pessimistic warning about the world economy in years to come. And that warning remains valid even if the economic damage from the coronavirus epidemic turns out to be mild and short-lived.
            …

        3. My gut is wondering if coronavirus will be used to provide cover for near zero or even negative interest rates?

          So, when people refi, will masks be provided for closing?

      1. Wonder if mosquitos can transmit it? Highly unlikely. The main confounding factor is how the new virus spreads (or fails to spread) in a hot humid environment.

  4. “An investment firm owned by Japan’s SoftBank Group Corp. bought the defaulted mortgage on a downtown luxury condo tower, the latest sign that a wave of investors is scavenging the wreckage of Manhattan’s condo glut.

    As you watch all these knife catchers rush in to BTFD, just remember, it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese.

    2. The same company that went all-in on WeWork. Sounds just like the perfect knife-catcher.

    1. Stimulus round one is on the way…

      The Financial Times
      Coronavirus
      Italy unveils €3.6bn stimulus to tackle coronavirus
      Global leaders weigh up ways to ease supply disruptions while containing outbreak
      Mandatory Credit: Photo by MARCO OTTICO/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock (10569987c) People wearing protective face masks in Milan, Italy, 28 February 2020. The number of people infected with the novel coronavirus (Covid-19) disease who have died in Italy has risen to 17. COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak in Italy, Milan – 28 Feb 2020
      A woman wears a face mask to protect against infection in central Milan © MARCO OTTICO/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
      Davide Ghiglione in Rome
      5 hours ago

      Italy will inject €3.6bn into its economy to mitigate the impact of the largest outbreak of coronavirus in Europe as policymakers around the world consider the consequences of transport and supply disruptions resulting from efforts to contain the disease.

      Roberto Gualtieri, Italy’s economy minister, said on Sunday the government would introduce tax credits for companies that reported a 25 per cent drop in revenues, as well as tax cuts and extra cash for the health system.

      The package will amount to 0.2 per cent of GDP, he told La Repubblica, and would come in addition to €900m worth of measures unveiled on Friday for the most severely hit regions.

      Rome will simultaneously seek authorisation from Brussels to increase the budget deficit for this year, the Treasury said over the weekend.

      The eurozone’s third-largest economy, which was on the brink of recession before the disease, needs “shock therapy”, said Giuseppe Conte, Italy’s prime minister, on Sunday in an interview with il Fatto Quotidiano newspaper.

      The move comes as investors and policymakers anticipate more harm to the global economy than previously thought. Global markets shed four-months of gains last week over concerns the response to the spread of the new disease will hit economic activity and companies profit more heavily than initially anticipated.
      …

      1. “Italy unveils €3.6bn stimulus to tackle coronavirus”

        Italy can’t afford a loaf of 3-day old bread. Where did the €3.6bn come from?

    1. Live updates: Coronavirus was probably spreading for six weeks in Washington state, study says; first deaths confirmed in U.S., Australia and Thailand
      Tourists wearing protective masks pose for a photograph at the Rialto bridge as the sun sets in Venice. (Francisco Seco/AP)
      By Katie Mettler, Alex Horton,
      Meryl Kornfield and Paul Schemm
      March 1, 2020 at 10:09 a.m. PST

      The novel coronavirus has probably been spreading undetected for about six weeks in Washington state, where the first U.S. death was reported this weekend. A genetic analysis of the virus from a newly diagnosed patient in Snohomish County closely matched that of a specimen from the first known coronavirus patient in the United States, who traveled from China in January.

      The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that these cases are linked through community transmission, researchers say, and that this has been going on for weeks, with hundreds of infections likely.
      …

      1. The first case diagnosed was in WA state. That guy was probably spreading it all over the place. I wonder how many people with coughs and other ailments were never tested for COVID-19 but instead told that they had a cold or the flu, and were sent home from the doctor/hospital. The US wasn’t testing anybody for a long time.

        1. The US wasn’t testing anybody for a long time. No. The US had an extremely small supply of test kits last week – the figure I read was only 2,000. So perforce health authorities had a very restricted list of who would get tested – only those with a direct connection to China / that cruise ship / etc. Patients with serious symptoms resembling COVID-19 were not being tested unless they had that connection. In the last few days the CDC and FDA drastically loosened their criteria for testing. What has not been publicized is just how many test kits will become available in the coming week. What can’t be tested, can’t be diagnosed or counted.

          1. And what doesn’t get counted, doesn’t exist, per the Housing Bubble Blog’s resident coronavirus expert in absentia.

          3. coronavirus expert

            It’s problematic to take on a subject that is unknown to you, read some articles probably written by someone without relevant experience, based on sketchy information, and then set about lecturing everyone like they were an oracle.

            It results in crow dinners.

          4. “resident coronavirus$ expert in ab$entia.”

            aqdanny.boy is hypnotized watching this image flash every 5 seconds on FauxNew$: 😷 🙈🙉🙊

          5. It’s problematic to take on a subject that is unknown to you, read some articles probably written by someone without relevant experience, based on sketchy information, and then set about lecturing everyone like they were an oracle.

            I was kind of hoping ABDan ended up being right, because this thing is ugly and I don’t like to see disease killing people.

            Now that his hypothesis, or whatever you want to call it, has been proven bunk, where did he go?

          6. He has a history of lecturing “this board” (his term of reference for The Housing Bubble Blog) ad nauseam, for weeks on end, regarding the correctness of his analysis, only to dissapear when the facts overwhelmingly prove him wrong.

            The oil market crash of a few years ago was a good example of this.

          8. “Now that his hypothesis, or whatever you want to call it, has been proven bunk, where did he go?”

            The same place he disappeared to for a long long time in the past?

            He was a mega China bull, then when he came back he was basically a China bear. At least that’s how it appeared to me.

          10. Housing Bubble Blog’s resident coronavirus expert

            I thought that was the out-of-work attorney who’s buying the million dollar house while using Medi-Cal?

      1. True dat.

        And I’m avoiding the temptation to check for “Made in China” labels. The water is under the bridge already…

    3. A decent chunk of the metro Seattle area is going to be exposed, if not already has been.

      We can’t fully avoid having to go out and deal with people (kids in school, wife has go into the office a couple days a week, etc) , and it’s possible we’ve already been exposed so the concern now is detecting if we get sick and watching it carefully.

      Panic buying has started over the last 48 hours at the grocery stores and costco, but not gone full wwz yet. Maybe by this afternoon?

      I’m mostly stocked up for 30+ days, but now wondering if I should have done better.

        1. Went to Costco this am crowded like a per-hoiliday shopping spree. I noticed the Chinese looking folks were stock piling Toilet paper, disinfectant, rice, stuff like that and American looking shoppers were buying the usual Costco big packs of whatever. Went to Smart and Final later and it was dead. Costco still had plenty of Sambucol I thought that was surprising.

          2. It’s generally a respiratory flu, no ebola.

            I find it interesting that there’s a run on toilet paper but not on food. And no run on paper towels?

      2. stocked up for 30+ days

        That gets you to April when we all hope the flu season ends.

        If the grocery stores were to be stripped clean tomorrow by panicked hordes and you can go a few days before shopping there would likely be more stuff by then. Out past a week without supplies many people would be starving, a bigger crisis. Even in Venezuela people are not starving in mass.

        1. The whole reason to stock up, for me, is to be able to avoid the store and infection, not so much to avoid supply stocks. If there’s a mass starvation even, well, I don’t know how to avoid that.

          2. “If there’s a mass starvation even, well, I don’t know how to avoid that.”

            Din’t you say yesterday…

            “This thing is spreading like wildfire now. These are all lagging indicators. The slow incubation period duped a lot of trolls into thinking it was a big ol’ nothingburger.”

            When questioned…

            [Package delivery from Amazon]

            Is it safe to bring these boxes into our home?

            Safe to open them!?

            You replied

            “Not really safe. According the everything I have read, to be you’re supposed to remove your shoes before entering your house, then remove your clothing and put it into a bag, then take a shower in order to be as safe as possible.”

            You Hwy and the Giddy gang are a trip.

            Don’t get me wrong, I believe washing your hands, using antibacterial wipes for hands on public items like shopping carts etc. and staying home when you are sick are all great ideas. They are always great ideas just like having enough food and water in your home for a few weeks is a great idea.

            Now before you continue running in small circles and screaming OMG! Amazon just put a biohazard on my front porch remember…

            Every year between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the United States die from the regular flu.

          3. 12,000 and 61,000 people in the United States die from the regular flu

            But all the smart folks have their hair on fire.

          4. Din’t you say yesterday…

            What is your question? I don’t even understand what you’re getting at.

          5. Every year between 12,000 and 61,000 people in the United States die from the regular flu.

            Right. But the flu has a fatality rate of .14%. This virus has a fatality rate of anywhere between 2% and 4%, which means it is up to 28x more deadly. What part of that are you missing?

      3. There are three cases pending in MD so far. I note that *nobody* has said where in Maryland the cases are, likely to avoid the run on the stores. Grocery stores are still fully stocked. It’s only hand sanitizer and bleach that are running out.

        1. Once things run out and aren’t replaced, this is going to expose the peril that globalists and their bootlicking congresscritters put us all in.

        2. “Right. But the flu has a fatality rate of .14%. This virus has a fatality rate of anywhere between 2% and 4%, which means it is up to 28x more deadly. What part of that are you missing?”

          The part that’s not there. 0.7%.

          But please, feel free to continue running in circles while flapping your arms and screaming.

          By LAURAN NEERGAARD AP Medical Writer
          February 26, 2020, 2:19 AM

          “You could have bad outcomes with this initially until you really get the hang of how to manage” it, Dr. Bruce Aylward, the World Health Organization envoy who led a team of scientists just back from China, warned Tuesday.

          WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE DEATH RATE?

          In the central China city of Wuhan, where the new coronavirus first exploded, 2% to 4% of patients have died, according to WHO. But in the rest of hard-hit China, the death rate was strikingly lower, 0.7%.

          https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/deadly-coronavirus-early-69224705

          1. The majority of the cases have been in Hubei, where the death rate is the highest. As the virus has spread, the death rate is at first small, because people have not had a chance to yet die from their infection. Why would you assume the lower rate when that’s not where the majority of infections are, Jeff? Oh, I know, because you are cherry picking. Keep whistling past the graveyard, Rush, I mean Jeff.

          2. The numbers coming out of China are bogus. US numbers are also questionable given problems with the CDC’s test kits and their availability. The real fatality rate is still a big question mark. Right now, certain regions on the US are more exposed than others. That’s about all that’s really known.

      4. Panic buying has started over the last 48 hours at the grocery stores and costco, but not gone full wwz yet.

        Boots-on-the-ground report from Bellevue:

        Just did a trip to QFC to get food for dinner tonight (we’ve already stocked up on non-perishables earlier in the week, in addition to our normal emergency stores).

        Quite a few asian folks wearing masks. Clearly some folks stocking up on meat to freeze and bleach (lady in front of me had three bottles of bleach in her pile).

        The flour and sugar had been pretty well ravaged, as well as parts of the bread aisle. Peanut butter and such seemed thinned out as well. Saw a stack of bottled water at the end of an aisle (didn’t go look in the aisle to see the state of things). Definitely not an “empty shelf” look overall, but I guess we’ll see how quickly they restock.

        1. Shouldn’t water supplies be okay? It’s not an earthquake or contaminated reservoir.

          1. Shouldn’t water supplies be okay? It’s not an earthquake or contaminated reservoir.

            I would think they’d be fine. But others have reported here folks stocking up on water at Costco and such…

          2. It’s not cholera. And we’re not a third world country.

            I’m not planning to worry about the water supply.

          4. I’ve always seen Hispanics loading up on bottled water. Likely because they don’t trust the American tap water (which is pretty funny). Still no panic-buying here.

          5. I’ve always seen Hispanics loading up on bottled water. Likely because they don’t trust the American tap water (which is pretty funny).

            Old habits dies hard. It’s funny trying to get Chinese people to trust the tap water here, too.

          6. If you think the water supply might be unsafe, it is cheaper and more space friendly to buy a gallon of Clorox. 8 drops per gallon, so I’m told. I gallon bleach/1500 gallons water.

            I hate the taste, so Brita.

          7. Chinese people to trust the tap water

            I had some Chinese colleagues visiting and we were on the same water that Perrier was bottling, tested every day at least. They didn’t believe me. Bottled water doesn’t get tested like that.

  7. US’s Caronovirus strategy:

    1. Pray – Pence
    2. PPT – Munchkin
    3. Rate Cut – Powell
    4. Stock Market Propaganda – Kudlow

    3. 6. Impeach DJT. Again. – Schiff, Nadler & Pelosi
      7. Medicare for all. – Sanders
      8. Don’t close the borders. Because $$$. – Chamber of Commerce

    4. Look$ like U.$. Wall.$treet financial wanker$ are gonna get a ta$te of what happen$ to your trade.commerce.pathway$ once they get violently “Di$rupted” by highly contagiou$ pathogen$.

      (Kinda of like what happened to NorthAmerican Fir$t.Nation people$ & village$ with white.Euro $mall.pox blanket.bug$),

      $ad.

      1. They’re essentially UBER drivers with freight as their passengers – a bunch of lemmings who can’t complete a remedial math problem to realize they are purchasing and donating a vehicle to a company, free of charge.

      2. Here’s a related article …

        Amazon’s Delivery Blitz Is Good Business for Makers of Vans – Bloomberg
        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/amazon-van-buying-supports-banner-year-for-auto-fleet-business

        Here’s some snips …

        “Earlier this week, Amazon told third-party merchants they could no longer use FedEx for holiday season ground delivery, saying the company’s performance had been slipping. Amazon won’t say how much of its deliveries it’s now handling through its own network, but the ratio will likely rise to 70% next year, according to SJ Consulting Group.”

        Translation: Amazon is cutting out the competition for its delivery vans.

        “Automakers are loath to break out their sales to a single customer like Amazon, but Fiat Chrysler — which sells Ram ProMaster vans to Amazon, UPS and the USPS — delivered more than 51,000 vans through September. That was up 25% from a year earlier and put its vans on pace for the best year since at least 2014.”

        “The rise of Amazon’s branded fleet has also been a boon for auto dealers who repair and service these vehicles. ‘We’re seeing a lot of increase in servicing activity due to Amazon and other retailers,’ said Steve Germain, owner of a dealer group with Mercedes and Ford stores in Florida, Michigan and Ohio. ‘It’s important for them to get back in service as soon as possible, so it’s great business for us.'”

        1. Somewhat related to this …

          If you were a proud Supershuttle van owner and van driver as of last December 12 you got to wake up to news such as this…

          SuperShuttle, the nationwide airport service with blue-and-yellow vans, is going out of business.
          https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2019/12/12/supershuttle-airport-ride-vans-ceasing-operations-dec-31-uber-lyft-competition/4414020002/

          Some of these SuperShuttle van owners were on the hook for owing perhaps $60,000 on their van so now they are screwed.

      3. If Amazon works this right they can pit its employee drivers and its contracting drivers against each other.

        If the contractor drivers are financing the Amazon vans they drive then they have to drive their vans for Amazon or starve. This gives leverage to Amazon to cut their contractor’s driving wages.

        If Amazon’s contractor driver’s wages are cut this will put wage pressure on Amazon employees who drive Amazon’s vans. This means Amazon’s driving employees will be forced to accept lower wages or starve.

        If Amazon’s drivers are willing to accept lower wages then this in turn will put wage pressure on its contract drivers.

        And on and on it will go.

        I like it.

        😁

    3. Article is very misleading. Executive summary: Amazon lays off some drivers, but expects to hire cheaper ones.

      1. If the cheaper drivers are Amazon van owners then Amazon has these drivers exactly where they want them.

  9. Coronavirus hits tech companies: Google employee tests positive
    Jessica Guynn | USA TODAY Updated 2:38 p.m. PST Feb. 28, 2020

    A Google employee in Switzerland has tested positive for the coronavirus and the internet giant is restricting travel amid growing concerns about the spread of the deadly outbreak.

    The employee was in the company’s Zurich office “for a limited time,” and did not have symptoms at the time, Google said in a statement. The Zurich office remains open.

    “We have taken – and will continue to take – all necessary precautionary measures, following the advice of public health officials, as we prioritize everyone’s health and safety,” the company said.

    The outbreak has roiled the tech world. Major tech companies from Facebook to Amazon.com are dropping out of industry conferences and restricting travel for employees.
    …

  10. NASA satellite images suggest nearly complete absence of fossil fuel emissions in China. I’m skeptical as we haven’t heard electricity production is stopped, but still interesting.

    “Satellite images have shown a dramatic decline in pollution levels over China, which is “at least partly” due to an economic slowdown prompted by the coronavirus, US space agency Nasa says.”

    “Nasa maps show falling levels of nitrogen dioxide this year.”

    “It comes amid record declines in China’s factory activity as manufacturers stop work in a bid to contain the coronavirus.”

    1. tomtom.com has data on congestion most Chinese cities. Even Shanghai, Beijing are way off their ‘typical’ congestion levels. It ain’t over even though China has pretty much stopped reporting new cases.

      1. China has decided to try to pull a fast one on the world, first covering up the extent of the virus, and now trying to trick everyone into thinking it’s back to business as usual. They will doctor up all their manufacturing stats, etc., to miraculously avoid disaster when it comes time to report.

        1. They will doctor up all their manufacturing stats, etc. That’s a-nice, but how will the sudden drastic drops in worldwide delivery of goods once made in China be “doctored up”?

          1. They will just blame it on the short period of time they were down. Like all liars, they’re not believable, but they’ll continue to lie until they die. Liars never change.

      1. BTW, my silver lining comment was supposed to apply to the news that air pollution is way down in China.

        1. COVID is a respiratory illness. My guess is they shut off almost all of the pollution to save the lives of the sick.

          1. Lol. You’re funny, Oxide. The politburo cares about the $3 a day peasants? What color is the sky in your world?

  11. Is this really true? Or were these the pre-build buyers that are now stuck? How are they hanging on – construction loans indefinitely

    ——-
    “A September study by listings site StreetEasy found that more than a quarter of the 16,242 New York City condos built since 2013 hadn’t found a buyer. BH3’s co-founder Gregory Freedman said he expects more opportunities to buy distressed debt in Manhattan’s condo market, as well as retail spaces and rent-stabilized apartments. ‘History repeats itself, and everything is cyclical,’ Mr. Freedman said.”

  12. personal update. We moved from Seattle – and have our nice 2 br condo downtown Seattle (Belltown) for sale for 4 months. We finally, officially closed on 2/29 and had to take 11% less than our original (and at the time thought a reasonable pricing). Taking the $ and running so we dont have to rent it out etc.

    1. We moved from Seattle

      Congrats on selling the Belltown condo. If you don’t mind sharing, where did you relocate to?

      1. we are now living in Toronto to try a new larger city experience, to be closer to family and take somewhat of an informal sabbatical.

    2. Thanks for sharing, and congrats for getting out with (presumably) some gains before the coronavirus outbreak casts a pall over West Coast housing markets.

      I’m curious about how you chose your original ask price?

      1. There was another similar, slightly large corner unit that sold in our building. They had also done some unit updates before they sold. We priced lower than that per sq/ft (and lower than the King County assessment). We then had two price cuts. So – all in all – we were able to sell at 11% of our original price.

        Note. Between HOA fees and property taxes our nut was $18k/year for a paid off condo.

        1. Between HOA fees and property taxes our nut was $18k/year for a paid off condo.

          Just how much are people paid in Seattle?

          2. we both work in software – so decent pay, and some payoffs from stock grants.

            We had previously sold and rented until prices dropped in the housing crash. We bought in 2010 – so got the place at a good price, but unfortunately the HOA fees in particular, but also the property tax grew considerably over the last 10 years.

            I sat on the finance committee for the condo association. The condo board had a hard time controlling costs – and would push back on our recommendations.

          3. but also the property tax grew considerably over the last 10 years

            It just boggles the mind. We approved a new school tax in my little burg, and my property tax rose to almost $3000 per year. $18,000 per year? That’s a mortgage payment.

          4. $18,000 per year

            No personal or corporate income tax in WA. Gotta get it elsewhere.

        2. “Between HOA fees and property taxes our nut was $18k/year for a paid off condo.”

          Due East of you in the Columbia Basin our 2003 newish $125k, 3/2 spec 1,550-sqft rancher w/$50k down used to cost me $700 per month, which included the 5.50% mortgage, taxes, insurance, monthly electricity, garbage and street lights combined. My wife wasn’t employed, and raised our kids as a homemaker. With the mortgage paid-off in 2011, it now costs me roughly $350 per month for taxes, insurance, monthly electricity, garbage and street lights combined.

          The difference allows me to put my children through college, debt free; no FAFSA, no grant “ash” kissing! Modern democrats are quick to cast my nuclear family setting as evil since I wasn’t dependent on their handouts, and they couldn’t inculcate our toddlers with LGBTQ values during their formative years.

        3. > Between HOA fees and property taxes our nut was $18k/year for a paid off condo.

          $1500/mo for just Taxes, Insurance and HOA fees? wow. How much were just the HoA fees?

  13. It seems like we are likely to see still lower interest rates in the days ahead, given that this is pretty much the only arrow in the central bankers’ quiver.

    1. The Financial Times
      Coronavirus
      Calls for policymakers to act to prevent coronavirus ‘doom loop’
      Predictions of shortlived shock from outbreak appear increasingly optimistic, economists warn
      Philip Lane, chief economist of the European Central Bank (ECB), speaks as Kristalina Georgieva, managing director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), second left, listens at a discussion during the annual meetings of the IMF and World Bank Group in Washington, D.C., U.S., on Wednesday, Oct. 16, 2019. The IMF made a fifth-straight cut to its 2019 global growth forecast, citing a broad deceleration across the world’s largest economies as trade tensions undermine the expansion.
      Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
      ECB chief economist Philip Lane and Kristalina Georgieva, IMF managing director © Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
      Chris Giles in London, Robin Harding in Tokyo, Brendan Greeley in Washington, Martin Arnold in Frankfurt
      3 hours ago

      Disruptions caused by the coronavirus outbreak that originated in China and is now spreading through the rest of the world are driving the global economy closer to a recession, triggering calls for fiscal and monetary intervention.

      Capital Economics cut its growth forecast by 0.4 percentage points to 2.5 per cent for 2020, in what the IMF considers recession territory. But Jennifer McKeown, head of economic research at Capital Economics, cautioned that if the outbreak became a global pandemic — a state some epidemiologists say has already been reached — the effect “could be as bad as 2009, when world GDP fell by 0.5 per cent”.

      Predictions by IMF chief Kristalina Georgieva a week ago that global growth would be hit by just 0.1 percentage points at 3.2 per cent this year already seem out of date. The OECD in Paris will on Monday rush out a new interim forecast, setting out a greater impact than the IMF’s reading, and outline an alternative scenario with what officials describe as “more serious consequences”.

      A global recession in the first half of this year is “suddenly looking like a distinct possibility”, said Erik Nielsen, chief economist at UniCredit.
      …

      1. It’s a good thing that policymakers encouraged families to maintain savings of 6-months of living expenses. 🙂

    2. Business
      How to Think About the Plummeting Stock Market
      No one knows exactly how much damage the coronavirus will do to the global economy, but investors have to guess.
      Joe Pinsker
      February 28, 2020
      Martin Lisner / Shutterstock / The Atlantic

      Over the past week, stock markets around the world plunged as distressing news about the spread of the novel coronavirus continued to accumulate. In the United States, the three major stock indexes—the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the Nasdaq Composite, and the S&P 500—fell more than 10 percent below their recent peaks, a sharp decline that qualifies in Wall Street terminology as a market “correction.” One investor quoted in The Wall Street Journal called it a “bloodbath.”

      The global stock market is, theoretically, the distillation of how investors think everything that happens in the world will play out in the economy. Right now, judging by these drops, investors are much less optimistic than they were a week ago. But what they’re predicting is not only how bad the outbreak could be in terms of workers staying home sick, drops in consumer spending, or supply-chain disruptions; it’s also how bad people think it could be. Those might turn out to be two very different things.
      …

      1. If you read around the comments on financial sites, it’s full of speculators begging the FED to step in and “save” the market. I really have a hard time understanding how the FED could even put a dent in the sell sentiment given the economic ugliness we are now faced with.

  14. Italy reports a 50% increase in confirmed coronavirus cases
    By Jay Croft, CNN
    Updated 3:44 PM ET, Sun March 1, 2020
    Rapid spread of coronavirus in Italy impacting economy

    (CNN) Italy reported a 50% increase in coronavirus cases Sunday, as the US further restricted travel and the famed La Scala opera house closed.

    Italy’s Civil Protection Authority reported the county now has 1,694 confirmed coronavirus cases, up from 1,128 confirmed cases on Saturday. Thirty-four people have died.
    Italy has the most coronavirus cases of any country outside of Asia.
    Delta Air Lines is suspending its US flights to Milan, the carrier announced Sunday. The last flight out will be depart New York on Monday. The last return flight will be on Tuesday.

    Delta said it will resume flights to Milan on May 1. Rome flights are not affected.
    …

      1. While I agree about CNN, they are citing numbers from other sources which are confirmed by all of the US institutions which are tracking infections, like Johns Hopkins which runs the coronavirus tracker site. Are you disputing the numbers? If so, can you link us to the “real” numbers in Italy? Or, are you just a partisan hack?

      3. “Thirty-four people have died.” By V. Putin

        Does that help you $wallow the factual.hairball.$tuck.in.throat?

        FauxNew$: 😷 🙈🙉🙊

    2. If I had to “ball park” the situation here in the US, I’d guess we already have thousands of cases walking around, they just haven’t been tested and confirmed.

      1. And while these “untested cases” are out walking around, they are spreading the virus far and wide in their communities.

        2. … from Russia with love. 😷🌏✈

          CORONAVIRU$:

          ‘This truly is a nightmare’: How one busine$$woman’s flight to China ended in coronavirus quarantine

          CNBC | PUBLISHED SUN, MAR 1 2020 | By Eunice Yoon

          KEY POINT$

          The Aeroflot flight she boarded on Friday in Mo$cow had two passengers infected with the virus. As a result, she is now quarantined in a Beijing hotel.

          The case of this Aeroflot flight shows how the problem$ of the coronavirus$ are becoming truly global, di$rupting people’s lives in places and ways that can be difficult to anticipate.

          After a month in Europe, Bian was flying home through Russia where there have been only two cases reported in the entire country. But as it turned out, the two infected passengers were transiting from Iran, which is experiencing one of the world’s most severe outbreaks. Bian said she saw no health screening or precautions taken by Sheremetyevo International Airport or by the airline before passengers boarded her flight SU 204.

          Bian says she was stuck on the plane for more than seven hours as health authorities checked temperatures and asked that the roughly 400 passengers fill out health forms. At least some, if not all of the passengers, have been quarantined, she said.

    3. I am scheduled to fly to St. Louis on Tuesday for a customer meeeting. One of my colleagues is coming back from northern Italy for the same meeting. I am bit concerned, obviously the screening will not determine anything if it takes 14 days or longer for the symptoms to show up.

      1. “One of my colleagues is coming back from northern Italy for the same meeting”

        What American airport is they landing @? … You certain they will get to this meeting in person?

        1. He arrived at LAX yesterday and was at work this AM.
          It looks like people living together have caught the virus faster. That said, me thinks, sitting with a virus carrier in confined spaces such as an aircraft or dining together for over 3 hours is a lot risky than traveling on a train for a short time with an affected person.

  15. What should investors do in the face of the coronavirus crash?

    Buy the dip…again, and again, and again…

    The stock market always goes up, and stimulus measures are on the way to make sure this continues.

    So buy the dip as often as possible.

    2. What happens when you buy the dip, and buy the dip, and buy the dip, and then you have no more money and it keeps dipping?

      1. Der Spiegel
        Star Economist Roubini on the Economic Effects of Coronavirus “This Crisis Will Spill Over and Result in a Disaster”
        Economist Nouriel Roubini correctly predicted the 2008 financial crisis. Now, he believes that stock markets will plunge by 30 to 40 percent because of the coronavirus.
        …
        Interview Conducted by Tim Bartz
        27.02.2020, 18:04 Uhr
        Economist Roubini: “The markets are completely delusional.”

        Nouriel Roubini is one of the most prominent and enigmatic economists in the world. He correctly predicted the bursting of the U.S. housing bubble in addition to the 2008 financial crisis along with the ramifications of austerity measures for debt-laden Greece. Roubini is famous for his daring prognostications and now, he has another one: He believes that coronavirus will lead to a global economic disaster …

        DER SPIEGEL: How severe is the coronavirus outbreak for China and for the global economy?

        Roubini: This crisis is much more severe for China and the rest of the world than investors have expected for four reasons: First, it is not an epidemic limited to China, but a global pandemic. Second, it is far from being over. This has massive consequences, but politicians don’t realize it.

        DER SPIEGEL: What do you mean?

        Roubini: Just look at your continent. Europe is afraid of closing its borders, which is a huge mistake. In 2016, in response to the refugee crisis, Schengen was effectively suspended, but this is even worse. The Italian borders should be closed as soon as possible. The situation is much worse than 1 million refugees coming to Europe.

        DER SPIEGEL: What are your other two reasons?

        Roubini: Everyone believes it’s going to be a V-shaped recession, but people don’t know what they are talking about. They prefer to believe in miracles. It’s simple math: If the Chinese economy were to shrink by 2 percent in the first quarter, it would require growth of 8 percent in the final three quarters to reach the 6 percent annual growth rate that everyone had expected before the virus broke out. If growth is only 6 percent from the second quarter onwards, which is a more realistic scenario, we would see the Chinese economy only growing by 2.5 to 4 percent for the entire year. This rate would essentially mean a recession for China and a shock to the world.
        …

        1. “Roubini is famous for his daring prognostications”

          His daring prognostications are daily conversation here on the HBB. 🙂

        2. “The Democratic field is poor, but Trump is dead. Quote me on that!” —Economist Nouriel Roubini

          During an International crisis don’t the American people rally behind their president? Even the dullest yokel seems to realize that Trump can’t stop the coronavirus. Roubini is allowing Trump to live in his head, rent free.

      3. It would be overly pessimistic if it were just coronavirus alone. But that debt bomb recession has been threatening for aabout a year now (when did that curve first invert?). Add both together and 40% is about on target.

      1. Why not leave this guy with a bottle of fentanyl laced Valium to save the taxpayers some expenses?

    2. I never did quite figure out what he did for a living. Whatever it was, it certainly didn’t seem to be a full-time job, for all the partying he did. At least for people like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates and possibly even Zuck, you know they work their butts off.

      2. At least for people like Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates and possibly even Zuck, you know they work their butts off.

        Some do, but a lot of them actually don’t. When I worked for a tech startup, the CEO and founder was almost never at work. This was a publicly traded company. When he was at work, he’d show up late and leave early. He was married, but was sleeping with one of his executives.

        In my experience, the higher up the food chain you go, the less hours people put in and the more money they make.

      4. Ox: my take is he managed peoples money and investments (remember 2and 20? 2% a year and 20% of the profits) and you can use his lolita island whenever you wanted.

  17. Glad we have an ample home stockpile of toilet paper!

    Coronavirus fears empty store shelves of toilet paper, bottled water, masks as shoppers stock up
    Kelly Tyko , Jessica Guynn , Mike Snider | USA TODAY Updated 10:09 a.m. PST
    Mar. 1, 2020

    On Thursday afternoon when Ryan Ozawa hit the Iwilei Costco next door to his office in Hawaii, he ran straight into a long line of carts stretching the length of the store as shoppers waited for toilet paper and paper towels.

    Costco employees were limiting shoppers to five packages of each and hand loading them into carts. As pallet after pallet was cleaned out, one shopper at the end of the line shouted out “The end of the line for the toilet paper and paper towels is right here.”

    Ozawa had to give up and return Friday morning when the store opened to snag a stash of toilet paper and paper towels for himself and his co-workers. With so many of the state’s food and goods imported, panic buying is common whenever a hurricane or other emergency threatens Hawaii.
    …

    1. With so many of the state’s food and goods imported

      Fortunately we live near the Charmin/Bounty paper mill and in the middle of farm country.

  18. Life could get very rough ahead for U.S. parents!

    The Financial Times
    Coronavirus
    Pence backs US school closures in coronavirus fight
    Trump administration steps up response after expanding travel restrictions

      1. Alcohol is the answer to many of the coronavirus concerns recently discussed here. Luckily I restocked my wine supply at Trader Joe’s yesterday.

          2. “Knot to get technical but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution.” …

            (Eye.love.dive.bar$!)

          2. Alcohol is the answer

            Ingested or topical.

            Hmmm … I should go to the liquor store and pick up a bottle of Glenlivet

          4. The Glen would be for drinking.

            For washing hands, some cheap $12 a 1.75L bottle of no name vodka or rum would probably suffice.

        4. Great minds, Prof. Today I stocked up at Total Wine myself. I barely drink, but hey, you never know.

          1. You have to drink to survive being holed up with my family members. I love them, but…

          2. You have to drink to survive being holed up with my family members. I love them, but…

            I hear you! wishing we had that pool and yard already.

          3. “You have to drink to survive being holed up with my family members. I love them, but…”

            LMFAO!

  19. Shitcoin isn’t exactly the store of value it was suggested to be. I am expecting a massive selloff. Why? Just a hunch, but I’m thinking lots of people are going to need cash in the near future and they’re going to trade those electronic tulips for some fiat.

    1 week
    $8,565.35
    -$1,412.29 (14.21%)

    1. Same thing is happening with gold. Instead of running toward safe havens, they are selling their safe havens to cover their margin calls.

    2. Go win statewide office in Indiana and/or serve a few terms in Congress then come back and try to be taken seriously.

      LOL@ entitled millennials.

      1. Go win statewide office in Indiana and/or serve a few terms in Congress then come back and try to be taken seriously.

        We all know why he was even considered at viable candidate.

      1. Really? I was thinking along the same lines but thinking it was to help anybody but Bernie.

        1. Hard to say. In the debate I watched, he said he was a Bernie fan before it was cool. That didn’t sound like a ringing endorsement for Biden.

  21. “LOL@ entitled millennials”

    Well$, ain’t YOU $pecial! ⤴

    Pete Buttigieg:
    From 2009 to 2017, he was a naval intelligence officer in the United States Navy Reserve, attaining the rank of lieutenant. He was deployed to Afghanistan for seven months in 2014 and was awarded the Joint Service Commendation Medal.

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