We Are Seeing This Crazy, Insane Market Soften
A report from Seattle Met in Washington. “Who: Kim Colaprete, managing broker withTeam Diva Real Estate of Coldwell Banker Bain. Years in the business: 22. I sold something in 2016, what seemed like a pretty modest house in Bitter Lake, and we had 25 offers. I was just like, I don’t know why people keep bringing me offers. It was weird because the house wasn’t exceptional, you know? It’s different with something stunning and unique with a view. It was the first indication to me that our market was shifting from a normal market to an, Okay, now we’ve hit the mark in Seattle where we have more people here than inventory and that’s never going to change again.”
“There’s been some kind of weird experiences with my buyers where we put in an offer and the other agent told us there were multiple offers, but I knew that it wasn’t a multiple offer. There was legit no proof this agent would show me. They said the other [potential buyer’s] escalator is the same as yours, but they kept changing the price that they wanted us to come to. What happens in a market like this is agents tell their clients they’re going to get multiple offers and going to sell over list price and that doesn’t happen and they back themselves into a corner. That’s the kind of behavior that I think gives listing agents a bad name and makes buyers really wary of Realtors, and that pisses me off.”
“There was an incident that happened last year where an agent posted a social media video created by her company, professionally produced, where—legit, on the video—she said they lied to the other agent about another offer so she could get $25,000 more. The company had to take down the video, and she was shredded by people. That is a severe violation of ethics, and that’s the kind of bad behavior that I think doesn’t get talked about enough. Like, that’s illegal, you’re not very bright, and you obviously don’t know the rules.”
From Boston.com in Massachusetts. “Joe Aiello of Gumshoe Home Inspection in Winthrop found significant termite damage in an attached garage when clients hired him to inspect a 5,000-square-foot home in Concord. He also discovered small leaks in the opper heating pipes in the basement (he suspects there are similar ones in the walls) and a dangerous situation with the electrical panel. Those problems are expected to cost several thousand dollars to repair, but it won’t be the seller bearing the cost. His clients already had purchased the home — without requiring an inspection.”
“Real estate agents say more prospective buyers than ever are waiving home inspections to make their offers more attractive to owners in this frenzied seller’s market. ‘I have been handling real estate closings since 1998 and have never seen a market like this,’ said Dina B. Browne,a partner at Bletzer & Bletzer, P.C. in Boston. ‘I don’t think we’ve yet seen the repercussions that will follow with all of the waivers, as those buyers are just moving into their homes. There are a lot of first-time buyers waiving these inspections who are only able to put a 5 percent down payment. If they get in there and the furnace goes, I don’t think they’re going to have the money to replace it, and that’s what scares me.'”
From Spectrum News on New York. “The U.S. housing market frenzy is starting to show some signs of cooling off as more homes hit the market. It’s good news for potential homebuyers who’ve been outbid time after time in their search for a new place to call home. The average home in Rochester sells for about $170,000. That’s 25% higher than just a year ago. And they’re going fast, with an average of five days on the market. ‘I’ve never seen a market like this,’ said Richard Sarkis, a veteran real estate broker with Howard Hanna. ‘It’s definitely the sellers who are in control.'”
“‘If there was ever a time to put your house on the market, now is the time,’ said Fred Corsi, Howard Hanna’s Western New York regional president. ‘It’s not unusual for buyers to have to write offers on 8, 10, 12 houses before they actually get one.’ Corsi believes it’s also a correction, of sorts, that the average home price in the region was a bit lower than it should have been. He says buyers should manage their expectations. Sellers want strong offers, and no contingencies, like traditional home inspections.”
“‘My advice to sellers is jump into that market, take that risk because we are finding that listings are increasing,’ he said. ‘There are more houses coming into the market over the last six weeks, so that the inventory is starting to creep up a little bit'”
From Gotham Magazine in New York. “Power broker Kirsten Jordan checks in to give us the real deal. The market is extreme. There are pockets of bidding wars in the A neighborhoods and an inventory surplus in the B neighborhoods, which have been overdeveloped expecting to get $2,000 per square foot. These prime areas are seeing rapid absorption as we speak, and soon enough, we will see faster absorption.”
“Inventory in Manhattan is dipping below 7,000 per sources as of today. This is so exciting! We foresee a strong rebound in the very near future, so reduction in negotiability as well as number of days on the market. This will further reduce shadow inventory.”
From Community Impact on Arizona. “Real estate professionals tell tales of low inventory, high competition, bidding wars and fast turnarounds on home sales. The reason, the real estate professionals said, is a simple one: supply. Maricopa and Pinal counties’ population increased about 290 people per day in 2020, according to Vintage U.S. Census estimates.”
“People who are waiting for this real estate bubble to burst will be disappointed, experts said. It is not a bubble, and experts do not expect a real estate crash like the one that occurred during the Great Recession. However, signs from later in the spring and into summer show the strength of the seller’s market is waning. Mark Stapp, at Arizona State University, said the pandemic further exacerbated the problem for working-poor buyers, a category he said can include residents from teachers to phlebotomists.”
“‘In places like the southeast Valley, the greatest share on a percentage basis of new home building growth is built for higher median incomes,’ Stapp said. ‘People are getting pushed out of the market to places like Florence or Coolidge where the price of land is cheaper.'”
“The experts say it will take longer to sell a home, and the process will look more like traditional home selling from the past couple of decades with fewer bids and buyer concessions. ‘If you’re in a weak seller’s market, [prices] won’t rise as fast as right now,’ said Tina Tamboer, senior data analyst for The Cromford Report, which provides detailed information on the Greater Phoenix residential resale market. ‘You might see it like 1% [per month], and that’s a 12% gain a year. That’s pretty amazing.'”
“Real estate professionals said they are frequently asked when the market will crash. ‘When you say ‘crash’ to somebody like me or a real estate agent who lived through 2008, they think of a drop in value by 50%,’ Tamboer said. ‘So that’s why you’re going to be like, ‘Nope, not going to happen.’”
“Tamboer stressed that no one can predict the market. She said she only projects where the market is headed based on the data trajectory from the moment, which now shows the seller’s market weakening. ‘Even though we are seeing this crazy, insane market soften, and it has been softening for three months, we’re not necessarily expecting it to go into this buyer’s market that we saw in 2006[-09], because that was the result of over 10 years of overbuilding and speculative buyers,’ Tamboer said. ‘Now we have people who actually need a place to live.'”
The Sioux Falls Argus Leader in South Dakota. “Today’s buying frenzy for homes feels eerily similar for many, the Sioux Falls Argus Leader reported. And it isn’t just buyers that are concerned. The bubble question is taking center stage. In order to slow the impact of COVID-19 on the housing market, the Federal Reserve bought over $1 trillion in mortgage bonds last year. ‘I am a little bit concerned that we’re feeding into an incipient housing bubble … I think we don’t need to be doing that with the economy growing at 7%,’ St. Louis Fed President James Bullard said in a statement to the Wall Street Journal.”
“‘At the end of the day, we looked at the market and how tough it was going to be to compete with other offers,’ said one buyer. ‘Yes, we paid more, but after losing out to individuals paying cash, we had to adapt on the offers we made.’ This Sioux Falls home went well over asking, ‘Yes, we paid more, but after losing out to individuals paying cash, we had to adapt on the offers we made,’ the buyer, who wished to remain anonymous, said.”
From Salon. “Yesterday morning, a burglar tried to break into my home. Thankfully the doors were all locked, but a few houses down wasn’t so lucky; our neighbor was home and is now pretty traumatized to have experienced a home-invasion burglary. By the time the police arrived, the burglar was long gone in a stolen car. A friend is trying to sell his condo in downtown Portland but large parts of downtown have been turned into a giant homeless camp so there are few buyers even in this hot real estate market. The nearby streets are pockmarked with tents and the curbs frequently sport human waste.”
From KTVI. “The housing market frenzy may have peaked for the year even as homes sold at their fastest pace and at record-high prices, according to Redfin. ‘In June we entered a new phase of the housing market,’ said Redfin Chief Economist Daryl Fairweather. ‘Home sales are starting to stall because prices have increased beyond what many buyers can afford. This summer I expect home prices to stabilize as more homeowners list their homes, realizing they likely won’t fetch a higher price by waiting longer to sell.'”
From Bloomberg on Canada. “They’re the kind of exotic mortgages that one typically associates with the reckless, go-go housing market that gripped the U.S., circa 2005: Put down 5% cash and get 3% back; or, wilder yet, put down nothing at all. So when these products — and others like them — started popping up in the normally cautious Canadian financial industry, it raised alarm among policy makers in Ottawa.”
“This is year twenty-five of the great Canadian housing bull market, a nearly uninterrupted straight line up that has few parallels in the world. At a time of soaring real-estate prices all over the globe, only one major economy — New Zealand — has a frothier housing market than Canada, according to an analysis by Bloomberg Economics. And after all those years of price gains, including a 21% surge since the pandemic began, millions of middle-class Canadians have no chance of scrounging together the money needed to make a conventional down payment of 20%.”
“In Whitby, a booming Toronto suburb nestled against the banks of Lake Ontario, this is a lament that mortgage broker Sherry Corbit hears constantly from first-time home buyers. More than half of them, she says, are opting for loans that either allow them to borrow the money for their down payment or that provide cash back after the closing. A year ago, these products made up a small fraction of her business.”
“Asked whether this worries her at all, Corbitt, who works with some of Canada’s biggest banks, whips out a statistic she’s proud of: In her 13 years in the industry, not a single client has defaulted. ‘We’re never going to see what happened in the States,’ she declares. ‘It’s just not possible here.'”
“Canada may still have a raft of regulations that prevents the riskiest of applicants — those who fell into the subprime category in the U.S. in the aughts — from ever getting a mortgage, but many of those who are approved for loans today are taking on debt loads that were once unthinkable.”
“A couple months ago, Josh Doornenbal plunked down C$1.1 million (about $870,000) for a three-bedroom house in the suburb of Langley for his family of five. He borrowed over C$800,000, an amount that equals more than eight times the C$100,000 annual salary he makes at an IT firm. It’s a staggering amount of debt — nearly double the Bank of Canada’s threshold for identifying highly leveraged borrowers. Even for loan officers increasingly ready to take on risk, it was an unnerving sum. Doornenbal, 33, pledged the home’s basement rental suite as a source of income — he figures it’ll pull in about C$2,300 a month — to bring down the debt ratio.”
“After many rejections, he found a credit union willing to green-light his loan application. Credit unions, which are provincially-regulated in Canada, are among those willing to underwrite some high-ratio mortgages, along with nonbank specialty lenders and major banks. ‘We worked hard to find a real creative solution,’ Doornenbal said.”
“Back in the Toronto suburbs, Corbitt, the mortgage broker, is busier than ever. Her business jumped 60% last year and is on pace to surge another 20% this year, she said. Much of this growth is coming from people who are getting pushed out of their rental homes by landlords who’ve decided to sell their properties amid the boom. Rather than hunt for a new rental in a suddenly fiercely competitive market — bids pour in for properties as soon as they’re listed — folks are opting to take the plunge and buy. This is what drove Doornenbal’s decision, too.”
“‘Well if I have to be evicted,’ Corbitt says clients tell her, ‘maybe now’s the time to buy.’ It all feels a little rushed, she acknowledges. ‘A lot of first-time buyers are not ready.'”
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‘There are a lot of first-time buyers waiving these inspections who are only able to put a 5 percent down payment. If they get in there and the furnace goes, I don’t think they’re going to have the money to replace it’
So how is a 5% down first time buyers waiving an inspection?
Realtors are liars.
“So how is a 5% down first time buyers waiving an inspection?”
A little subprime here….a bunch of appraisal fraud there.
How bout it.
If they get in there and the furnace goes, I don’t think they’re going to have the money to replace it’
I’m sure Mr. Banker has a dotted line special for that.
It is at this moment (a moment I fondly refer to as my “Gotcha!” Moment) that I love to offer up to the poor, suffering fool my “Freedom Loan”, a loan inspired by the words of Janis Joplin that went like this:
“Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.”
The moment the foolish puke reaches my Gotcha! state is the moment my Freedom Loan is presented to the mark and sold to the mark as his last-hope straw-grasping seeming (but illusionary) solution to his destined-to-be-never-ending lifetime financial woes.
‘This is year twenty-five of the great Canadian housing bull market, a nearly uninterrupted straight line up that has few parallels in the world’
I don’t know if this writer is a K-dn, but Bloomberg does create their own reality. See K-da never had a bubble pop in their eyes. Which is horsesh$t and you can go back to my archives to prove it. Vancouver in 2016. Toronto in 2017.
This is also from Bloomberg:
March 26, 2020
“As America heads into a deep recession, the $11 trillion residential-mortgage market is in crisis. Investors who buy home loans packaged into bonds are dumping even those with federal backing because of panic that millions might not make their payments. Yet one risky sector had started to show cracks long before the coronavirus pandemic sparked the worst financial meltdown in 12 years: the federal government’s largest affordable-housing program, whose lenient terms are geared toward marginal borrowers.”
“As real estate prices soared in recent years, working-class adults everywhere have increasingly relied on mortgages backed by the Federal Housing Administration — and U.S. taxpayers. Since 2007, the FHA’s portfolio has tripled in value to more than $1.2 trillion, almost 11% of the market. While private lenders make these loans, they are packaged into Ginnie Mae bonds, common in mutual funds and pensions.”
“Before Covid-19 started roiling China, a November FHA report found that 27% of borrowers last year spent more than half their incomes on debt, a level it describes as ‘unprecedented.’ The share of FHA loans souring in their first six months has doubled over the last three years to almost 1%.”
“Not long ago, Alex Castillo drove his shiny black Infiniti SUV through an office park north of the San Antonio airport, along a busy seven-mile stretch of highway that loan officers call ‘Mortgage Row’ because of its abundance of small independent mortgage companies that dominate FHA lending. Castillo, who has the words ‘The Dream Starts Here’ stitched into his jacket, works for Pennsylvania-based American Residential Lending. Oddly, amid the pandemic, his business is booming. His customers locked in FHA mortgages after interest rates plunged this month — adding to federally backed mortgage debt.”
“‘If the government tells me you’re good enough to get a loan, I have to trust and believe in the government,’ Castillo said. ‘Then we just hope and pray that the client doesn’t get foreclosed on.’”
“In downtown San Antonio, scores of investors stood on a parched lawn beside the city’s historic granite-and-red-sandstone courthouse. It was the first Tuesday of February, the day of the foreclosure auction. Matt Badders, a San Antonio lawyer who represents lenders, auctioned off two houses. The failed mortgages remind him of the run-up to the financial crisis 12 years ago, when lending to customers with spotty credit nearly brought down the world’s financial system. ‘We’re almost back to 2007, when mortgage originators are waking people up on park benches, saying sign here,’ Badders said.”
“At the auction, the crowd bid on 338 homes, a third with FHA mortgages, according to Roddy’s Foreclosure Listing Service. One house had dual master bedrooms, a game room and granite kitchen counters. It sold for $202,000 — $52,000 less than the homeowner borrowed only two years ago. The taxpayer-backed FHA insurance fund will take a loss.”
“Dave Stevens, FHA commissioner under President Barack Obama and former chief executive officer of the Mortgage Bankers Association, said a recession will expose hidden risks in home lending. ‘This should be an alarm bell to policymakers,’ Stevens said. ‘Sometimes you get blinded by a good economy and suddenly look at it and see a bubble of defaults coming.’”
“The federal government has decided it doesn’t want to pursue — and has asked a judge to dismiss — a lawsuit against Utah-based Academy Mortgage Corp. The judge refused. The suit claims the company’s staff would repeatedly feed information into an automated federal underwriting system, manipulating it until the computer gave the green light. ‘Decline is a curse word,’ Plaintiff Gwen Thrower, a former underwriter, quoted a manager as saying. ‘We don’t use it.’”
http://housingbubble.blog/?p=3070
‘People are getting pushed out of the market to places like Florence or Coolidge’
Jeebus Mark, not again.
‘It’s a staggering amount of debt — nearly double the Bank of Canada’s threshold for identifying highly leveraged borrowers’
Not 20% more or 40%, double.
100% higher, for those who like to think in percentages.
Sacramento, CA Housing Prices Crater 24% As Mortgage Defaults Triple
https://www.movoto.com/ca/95842/market-trends/
As one broker said on condition on anonymity, “We’ve been lying for so long about market conditions that we can’t stop now. We’re all in on lying to everyone.”
“Mark Levin: We are pissed off”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJEc4nW45T8
*6-min
maybe not as bad as we think:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/josh-doornenbal-b2221a35
Fox News Blasts NSA For ‘Unmasking’ Tucker Carlson: ‘Entirely Unacceptable’
BY DARRAGH ROCHE ON 7/24/21 AT 6:05 AM EDT
Fox News has said it is “entirely unacceptable” that on-air personality Tucker Carlson was unmasked by intelligence officials following a report that also said he was not a target for surveillance.
The National Security Agency’s (NSA) review of the matter showed that Carlson’s communications were not targeted, according to a report from The Record, a cybersecurity news publication.
Citing sources speaking on condition of anonymity, The Record reported on Friday that Carlson’s communications were also not intercepted by “incidental collection.”
When U.S. intelligence agencies collect data and then share it with others in the government, the names of any private citizens who are not a subject of investigation are redacted for privacy reasons.
“Unmasking” is when those names are revealed at the request of officials with proper security clearance. It is not known whose communications mentioned Carlson.
“For the NSA to unmask Tucker Carlson or any journalist attempting to secure a newsworthy interview is entirely unacceptable and raises serious questions about their activities as well as their original denial, which was wildly misleading,” the network said.
https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-blasts-nsa-unmasking-tucker-carlson-entirely-unacceptable-1612748
They took their sweet time coming to Tucker’s defense.
Seriously, what is the Swamp doing about Censorship of news, Big Pharmacy / Medical Monopoly tyranny over US lives, especially the outrageous forcing of a untested new technology vaccine that they are covering up the deaths and adverse reactions, and the fact that the vaccination are getting Covid. And its acceptable that a inaccurate PCR test is still being used to determine cases and now the so called surge from Delta.
As long as you have fake censored news, and fake Covid tests , and stolen government and government agencies, why would you comply and not revolt. They have already proven they are willing to harm you based on their ridicules fraudulent narratives.
They are willing to create chaos and breakdown of law and order. They are willing to attack innocent US Citizens, and the white race and declare over half the Country the enemy of their criminal takeover.
No doubt they want to deprive the people of informed consent on their stupid vaccines for their fraudulent fear mongering Medical Tyranny.
And Dr Fauci can even be the guy that funded the lab that leaked the virus, making bio weapons, and lies to Congress about it, and he’s up there with no fear of being indicted by the Biden DOJ.
They are on a race against time to accomplish all that they have planned, which has nothing to do with facts, reality, or the medical welfare of the Country.
I predict they are sitting up for more lockdowns, in spite of mass vaccinations, because they want to do more damage and looting . The question now is will the people revolt, like they are beginning to do in France and the UK.?
Seriously, what is the Swamp doing about Censorship
Finding ways to expand it?
The people are going to have to rebel in huge numbers, because no other recourse is proving effective against these Entities that are in control of everything apparently.
No help from Congress or Senate over what the US Citizens are being . subjected to. All they do is talk, talk, and more talk
We are under the dictates of a criminally rigged election in which they don’t care what they violate.
I mean Trump filed a lawsuit against the censorship, but how long will that take to get to the high Court.
Its like this puppet Government is on a race against time to do as many destructive , fraudulent and criminal actions before some Court might stop them.
If they can force everyone to take the jab than it seals the system of Big Pharmacy government owns you . These well meaning people are fear mongered or forced, or didn’t really get informed consent for the jab, while citizens have been under censorship by fake news.
The 24/7 false narratives have taken on a !life of their own. These people I’m surrounded by are willing to wear a mask, be locked down again, blame the unvaccinated, in spite of being vaccinated. And no doubt they will be willing to take as many booster shots they are told to take .
They are invested in the scam and the lies .
So, the ones that aren’t invested into the scams are the people that have to stop or revolt against this takeover while they have all these brainwashed people being hostile toward them.
This is stage one of the NWO official implementation. They were actually openly announcing it on TV in Australia about a week ago as the “first full day of the new world order” where police check your groceries to make sure you aren’t buying non essential items and they are telling people not to talk to anyone in public including family or friends even if you are wearing a mask and have been vaccinated. So now people have gone from two weeks to flatten the curve to living on rations and in total social isolation even after complying with mask mandates, lockdowns, and vaccination programs. Even so the Great Wall of China that surrounds most peoples’ normalcy bias has not been penetrated. The majority of people still believe that if they comply with one last draconian edict their benevolent leaders will let them go back to normal.
“There are a lot of first-time buyers waiving these inspections who are only able to put a 5 percent down payment. If they get in there and the furnace goes, I don’t think they’re going to have the money to replace it, and that’s what scares me.’”
How does this work out for low income borrowers who don’t have two nickels to rub together, but are lured by some deranged downpayment assistance program to borrow the money to pay the downpayment on a home purchase?
“How does this work out for low income borrowers who don’t have two nickels to rub together, but are lured by some deranged downpayment assistance program to borrow the money to pay the downpayment on a home purchase?”
For me and for the realtor and for the seller it works out just fine.
I get a hefty fee, the realtor gets a nifty commission, and the seller gets to receive a large pile of cash.
Oh, I almost forgot: The neighbors also get to enjoy a win.
The price agreed to be paid by the buyer resets the values for the comps. If the buyer can buy using money that he does not have to buy a house for a price that he cannot afford then the upper limit of this price that he cannot afford can be greatly extended.
If a group of such buyers can be congregated together and pitted against one another in a bidding war then this price that none of them can afford can become quite insane and it will be the most insane of these buyers who will end up being the top bidder, meaning it will be the most insane of the insane that will create the equity wealth for the neighbors.
This equity wealth magically generated for the neighbors due to the insane buying decision of the top bidder of a bidding war and paid for by using money he does not have is wealth that can be (and will be) “cashed out” and spent by many of the neighboring pukes who just cannot stand the thought of having home equity “just sitting there”.
“Cashing out home equity” is just a friendly term that means “borrowing the increased ‘value’ of your home” that came about due to the purchasing actions of a total stranger who just so happened to decide to buy a house that is comparable to your own. This cashed-out money then can be spent and this spending will add fuel to keep our seventy-percent consumer-based economy humming along.
Also, and most important of all, cashing out home equity will generate some very hefty fees for the lender. 😁
no playmate centerfolds for young mr. banker: it was financial spreadsheets for the bedsheets
“Cashing out home equity”
Since the middle-class don’t qualify for welfare style programs the Home Equity Line Of Credit (HELOC) is how the government puts money into their hands. When asset values stop rising it’ll be game over for metro America.
I notice the adjective “insane” shows up quite often in your explanations for what we are currently witnessing. 🙂
“Real estate professionals said they are frequently asked when the market will crash. ‘When you say ‘crash’ to somebody like me or a real estate agent who lived through 2008, they think of a drop in value by 50%,’ Tamboer said. ‘So that’s why you’re going to be like, ‘Nope, not going to happen.’”
It didn’t take long for cryptocurrencies or lumber futures to crater by over fifty percent a couple of months ago. Is there something different about real estate that would preclude a fifty percent drop following an insane bubble runup in price to unsustainable heights?
FYI, like I posted yesterday, light vehicle sales, a debt-based purchase, is in fact cratering, sales down to 2013 levels, after a dip and surge, like housing: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ALTSALES
As I noted, there are important differences in the markets, but this collapse is with low interest rates ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/categories/33058 ). Remains to be seen if housing follows a similar path. The government and Wall Street have built what may be a Maginot line against a housing market downturn, or it may actually work. Remains to be seen.
I was thinking about how much healthier it would have been if the economic and housing spikes had been in the opposite direction. It was logical and expected, and with the plague ending, we would recover. Instead, we don’t know what the hell is going on…but anyone paying attention can see it is going to get ugly.
Cheer up my good friend and remember… As a noted economist stated so eloquently, Nothing accelerates the economy and creates jobs like falling prices to dramatically lower and more affordable levels. Nothing.”
He’s right.
Loveland, CO Housing Prices Crater 19% As Denver Housing Market Turns Toxic
https://www.movoto.com/loveland-co/market-trends/
As reported earlier the CDC-linked VAERS website released its weekly numbers last Friday. The website has now recorded 11,140 reported deaths from the COVID vaccine in the United States. This is up from 9,125 reported deaths from the COVID-19 vaccinations total from last week. [This is where Oxy called pants on fire]
But then a strange thing happened. After the CDC posted this number they went back hours later and switched it to 6,079 reported deaths in the US from the COVID Vaccine.
The CDC is something!
First they make it difficult to report a adverse vaccine event to begin with. Second, I heard a reporter say they turned of the answer service and you only get a message now. Also same reporter said in essence that they didn’t even have coding for a Covid averse reaction event on the forms for the Dr. to fill out. Also there are 11 in total agencies that events can be reported to, so they are only talking about the one.
And, no doubt many a Doctor is gaslighting a victim by convincing them that their symptoms and conditions had nothing to do with the vaccine shot they got. Old people dropping like flies after getting the shot is racked off to them being old .
So, again , when you have the medical profession doing whatever is necessary to support the vaccine program , than the system isn’t following Science but the dictates of Big Pharmacy.
Than the Doctors that rebels against this Fraud are censored, attacked, or under risk of being hassled by the Medical board, or cancelled.
So, you have a medical system that had been under Big Pharmacy tranny long before the Covid crisis. Doctors had more and more discretion taken from them decade by decade by the influence of Big Pharmacy. A long term pill or Vaccine for everything.
One thing I have noticed over the years is medical kept targeting younger and younger age groups to go on long term medication. They kept changing the meaning of their tests . They kept changing how low your cholesterol had to be, for instance.
And this was in spite of the side effects of having a cholesterol level being to low, such as more prone to cancer, depletion of coenzyme 10 so you can get a heart attack easier, and mental diseases from to low of a cholesterol count.Just a example.
Whistleblower testimony says at least 45,000.
I also heard that they got 18 thousand in the UK that’s been reported.
I wish they would say in each age group what the numbers are. I would just suspect that the number of adverse effects are really high in the 75 + group.
How many of those deaths were really motorcycle accidents “with” vaccine instead of “of” vaccine? 🤪
Joking aside, you’ll love the data coming out of Israel. Evidently, the immunity in the Pfizer vaccine is waning over time. Over a period of months, the number of double vaccinated people “getting” COVID has been increasing. This time they tracked stages of symptoms from asymptomatic to hospital. The protection against mild cases % has been dropping like a rock over six months, although the protection is holding steady for hospitalizations. There are many possible reasons for the weird data: lifting of mask mandates, the % vaccinated increasing over time, the demographics of who was vaccinated first, or the growth of Delta and its immune escape.
In the UK, about half the vaccinees got Pfizer, and they are still enjoying higher immunity, possibly because their rollout was later and the immunity hasn’t waned yet, or it’s because they got their shots 11-12 weeks apart instead of 3. The US isn’t tracking cases like Israel is, so we may not know whether the Pfizer vaccine is waning in the US. Oh, the poor, vaunted sainted Pfizer shot…
Of course, Pfizer is using this data to push for a single booster shot. This booster evidently is tweaked for Delta, so if people are willing to risk a third shot, maybe it will help them.
(I myself will not get another shot unless J&J comes out with a single-shot variant booster tweaked for delta/lambda and it gets EUA. Otherwise, I’ll just resign myself to getting a flu. Big deal.)
Alex Berenson has been covering the UK and Israel data for the last week. Because our health care system is more decentralized, we don’t have the same granularity in our data.
Israel’s intense data-harvesting was a condition of getting early access to the Pfizer vaccine.
Israel’s health care system makes it much easier to do so.
“Israel’s health care system…”
I believe they have an HMO style system since most of their citizens are ranked poor. The wealthy travel to the U.S. for specialty services.
Delta variant = Summer Sniffles and the people who ‘die’ from it are just old people who they fake a positive PCR test for.
Wrong.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-unvaccinated-people-are-being-hospitalized-covid-19-delta-variant-n1273998
Wrong
Not so fast.
“Delta and Delta Plus appear to be infecting equally those unvaccinated and vaccinated as shown from data in the UK and Israel. This is very different from what is in major media at this time which has the government-issued talking point ‘we have a current crisis of the unvaccinated.’”
get another shot unless
Keep chasing those variants.
I like what the J&J CEO said. He said that it’s possible that we will need yearly boosters “for several years” until the world gains at least some herd immunity. I interpret that to mean that we’ll have 3-4 variant boosters until we either run out of viable variants or run out of human hosts to mutate in. And I’m sure he was talking about boosters for variants, not for waning immunity.
When you think about it, it’s not farfetched. This is a new virus; it’s too much to ask that we could develop a vaccine — or even natural immunity from natural — which defeats all forms of it on the first trial. 3-4 tweaks isn’t crazy. It’s also not quite reasonable to expect we’ll need 50 annual boosters in our lifetimes, given the data we have on SARS. I like middle grounds, and this approach is a middle ground.
This is a new virus
80% homology to SARS-CoV-2 and similar enough to other coronaviruses that our immune systems handle it just fine.
handle it just fine
Unless you are immunocompromised, which holds true for any virus or bacterial infection.
I like middle grounds, and this approach is a middle ground.
Unfortunately, truth rarely lies in the middle ground.
“Of course, Pfizer is using this data to push for a single booster shot.”
“a single-shot variant booster tweaked for delta/lambda and it gets EUA.”
Canada already signed a deal with Pfizer to provide enough booster shots every year for every Canadian citizen for the next three years They are going to be coming after people every 6-12 months.
“Otherwise, I’ll just resign myself to getting a flu.”
You make it sound like the authorities plan on giving you a choice. You will take whatever shot they want to give you whenever and wherever they want to give it to you as many times as they want to give it to you. “Choice” is not going to be an option. That’s the plan and it is as plain as the nose on your face.
It looks like the California Prop 47 (which was co-authored by George Gascon) under $950 sidewalk sales are a raging success.
New DA Gascon to decline prosecution on range of low-level crimes
By ABC7.com staff
Thursday, December 10, 2020
George Gascón, who became Los Angeles County’s new district attorney Monday, announced sweeping changes including shifts away from the death penalty and cash bail.
LOS ANGELES (KABC) — The Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office will no longer prosecute a range of misdemeanor crimes, from resisting arrest to drug possession to making criminal threats, according to a memo issued this week by new DA George Gascon.
Gascon announced a sweeping range of reforms when he was sworn-in Monday, including no longer seeking the death penalty and not using gang enhancements for sentencing.
Recent Stories from ABC 7
In addition, he has issued a memo to prosecutors in his office seeking to change how they deal with a range of low-level crimes.
The memo spells out misdemeanors which should be declined or dismissed before arraignment, with a number of exceptions at the discretion of the prosecutor. Among them: Trespassing, disturbing the peace, driving with no license or a suspended license, making criminal threats, drug possession, drinking in public, loitering to commit prostitution and resisting arrest, among others.
https://abc7.com/george-gascon-los-angeles-district-attorney-lada-misdemeanor-crimes/8674095/
Shoplifters hit TJ Maxx in Granada Hills in brazen crime captured on video
By Mary Stringini
Published 2 days ago
Granada HillsFOX 11
LOS ANGELES – Shoplifters hit TJ Maxx in Granada Hills on Monday in a brazen robbery captured on video.
According to the Los Angeles Police Department, two unidentified suspects entered the store between 12:30 and 1:30 p.m. and grabbed dozens of items each. The pair was captured on bystander video leaving the store without paying and the LAPD later said that the pair “refused to pay.”
This happened at the TJ Maxx located at 18045 Chatsworth Street in Granada Hills.
“That looks great,” the bystander who took the video can be heard saying as the pair headed towards the door with their stash.
One of the men was seen carrying an oversized duffle bag on his back.
In recent months, California has seen an uptick in retail and grocery store thefts. Just last week, a Rite Aid employee in Glassell Park was fatally shot by two shoplifters when he tried to stop them from stealing cases of beer.
Meanwhile, a video surfaced earlier this month showing a man stealing items in a San Francisco Walgreens and leaving the store on his bike with the goods as security guards and onlookers filmed the incident.
The crimes have operators in the grocery and retail industries raising concerns about harsher penalties for theft.
https://www.foxla.com/news/shoplifters-hit-tj-maxx-in-granada-hills-in-brazen-crime-captured-on-video
Soros Dumps Another $2.5 Million into George Gascón’s Race for Los Angeles DA
‘Gascón is running on a promise of turning our court system upside down’
By Katy Grimes, September 28, 2020 11:23 am
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/soros-dumps-another-2-5-million-into-gascons-race-for-los-angeles-da/
‘Gascón is running on a promise of turning our court system upside down’
How about that? A politician who kept his promise.
Gascón is the money. Soros is the organ grinder.
Monkey.
“Gascón is running on a promise of turning our court system upside down”.
A promise that he has kept.
Gascon (then a teenager) and his family “escaped” Cuban communism and relocated to America, and it’s freedoms, in the late 60s.
Is this country now better off or worse for the effort of allowing them to do so?
Ironic that this commie, Gascon, is of Cuban descent. All the Cubans that I have met, are definitely of the non-Commie variety. Leave it to SF and then LA to find the rarebird communist Cuban.
Given the taste of power, they too might change their minds.
Is there better way to gather a flock than a free for all?
Office will no longer prosecute a range of misdemeanor crimes, from resisting arrest to drug possession to making criminal threats, according to a memo issued this week by new DA George Gascon.
This is a textbook “criminogenic” approach. Serious criminals routinely commit “low level” crimes. Disrupting low level crimes works to disrupt serious criminals, in addition to stopping the low-level predation. This is not a novel concept.
China has a less expensive approach to reforming criminals.
I love it. Libtards getting what they deserve.
New World to tear down and rebuild two blocks of The Pavilia Farm flats in Tai Wai, citing construction defects
Imagine paying for the world’s most expensive skyboxes, only to learn they’re riddled with construction defects.
https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3140307/new-world-demolish-two-blocks-pavillia-farm-flats-tai-wai-compensate
The Pavilia Farm, Hong Kong’s bestselling new residential property of 2020, will tear down and rebuild two of the seven tower blocks under construction in Tai Wai because of defects, in an unprecedented setback in the world’s most expensive real estate market.
The concrete walls in the podium of blocks 1 and 8 of The Pavilia Farm III “did not meet the requirements of the approved design” found during concrete strength tests, according to a statement by the subway operator MTR Corporation, which is developing the project with New World Development.
Globalist propaganda organs are dropping the mask more each day on the globalist agenda.
CNN: Segregate Unvaccinated, Make Them Pay For Tests Every Day
https://summit.news/2021/07/23/cnn-segregate-unvaccinated-make-them-pay-for-tests-every-day/
CNN continued its wall to wall broadcasts calling for unvaccinated people to be punished, with analysts again calling for those who haven’t gotten the COVID shots to be segregated from society and forced to pay for tests every single day.
First up was CNN’s resident medical health “expert” Dr. Leana Wen who called for vaccine passports and forever masking.
“I think it depends on the circumstance,” Wen said, explaining “So if you’re going to the grocery store, and the grocery store doesn’t have the capacity to enforce some kind of proof of vaccination, then they have to say that indoor masking needs to apply, because we don’t know who’s vaccinated and who’s not.”
The vaxx has to be a bioweapon. And I strongly suspect that the “variants” are not naturally occurring.
They want us gone.
See my comments on the previous thread.
How Manipulation Works (COVID-19 vaxx version)
1. Fear – Do this or something bad will happen
2. Flattery – Do this and you’re a good person
3. Bribery – Do this and I’ll do something for you
4. Coercion – Do this or else
I love this blog. Some serious Red Pills here.
The bold headline in the local newspaper I saw at the grocery store this week said “doctors agree: masks are here to stay”.
The other CNN “advisor” with Wen was Andy Slavitt.
‘Next up on CNN, which should probably be renamed VNN, was Former White House senior COVID-19 adviser Andy Slavitt who proclaimed that the Biden administration should become “very aggressive” and force unvaccinated workers and students to take daily tests and to cover the costs themselves’.
The Wiki page on Slavitt states:
“After graduating from college, he was an investment banker with Goldman Sachs”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Slavitt
I read the Salon article and the author reaps what they sow in Portland and other idiotic cities .
A report from Seattle Met in Washington. “Who: Kim Colaprete, managing broker withTeam Diva Real Estate of Coldwell Banker Bain. Years in the business: 22. I sold something in 2016, what seemed like a pretty modest house in Bitter Lake, and we had 25 offers. I was just like, I don’t know why people keep bringing me offers. It was weird because the house wasn’t exceptional, you know? It’s different with something stunning and unique with a view. It was the first indication to me that our market was shifting from a normal market to an, Okay, now we’ve hit the mark in Seattle where we have more people here than inventory and that’s never going to change again.”
“There’s been some kind of weird experiences with my buyers where we put in an offer and the other agent told us there were multiple offers, but I knew that it wasn’t a multiple offer. There was legit no proof this agent would show me. They said the other [potential buyer’s] escalator is the same as yours, but they kept changing the price that they wanted us to come to. What happens in a market like this is agents tell their clients they’re going to get multiple offers and going to sell over list price and that doesn’t happen and they back themselves into a corner. That’s the kind of behavior that I think gives listing agents a bad name and makes buyers really wary of Realtors, and that pisses me off.”
“There was an incident that happened last year where an agent posted a social media video created by her company, professionally produced, where—legit, on the video—she said they lied to the other agent about another offer so she could get $25,000 more. The company had to take down the video, and she was shredded by people. That is a severe violation of ethics, and that’s the kind of bad behavior that I think doesn’t get talked about enough. Like, that’s illegal, you’re not very bright, and you obviously don’t know the rules.”
– “Insert my shocked face here.”
– Used car salespersons, Congresspersons, realtors, financiers/bankers, all upstanding citizens, exhibiting high moral and ethical behavior at all times.
– The veritable salt of the earth. Strewth. Fair dinkum.
From Spectrum News on New York. “The U.S. housing market frenzy is starting to show some signs of cooling off as more homes hit the market. It’s good news for potential homebuyers who’ve been outbid time after time in their search for a new place to call home. The average home in Rochester sells for about $170,000. That’s 25% higher than just a year ago. And they’re going fast, with an average of five days on the market. ‘I’ve never seen a market like this,’ said Richard Sarkis, a veteran real estate broker with Howard Hanna. ‘It’s definitely the sellers who are in control.’”
“‘If there was ever a time to put your house on the market, now is the time,’ said Fred Corsi, Howard Hanna’s Western New York regional president. ‘It’s not unusual for buyers to have to write offers on 8, 10, 12 houses before they actually get one.’ Corsi believes it’s also a correction, of sorts, that the average home price in the region was a bit lower than it should have been. He says buyers should manage their expectations. Sellers want strong offers, and no contingencies, like traditional home inspections.”
“‘My advice to sellers is jump into that market, take that risk because we are finding that listings are increasing,’ he said. ‘There are more houses coming into the market over the last six weeks, so that the inventory is starting to creep up a little bit‘”
– So the U.S. housing market (mania) is coming off the boil “a little bit.” Since human behavior is a relative constant throughout history, these concepts still apply, or aka “it’s [not] different this time.”:
– The five stages of an asset bubble:
1. Displacement
2. Boom
3. Euphoria
4. Profit-Taking [We’re here, IMHO.]
5. Panic
– Related, because bursting asset bubbles are painful:
The 5 Stages of Grief
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
– Related quotes:
– “It’s always a good time to
buy[sell]!”– Stein’s Law: “If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.” – Herbert Stein (1916-1999), Economist
– “It’s déjà vu all over again.” – Yogi Berra
– “Alice laughed: “There’s no use trying,” she said; “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.” – Lewis Carroll, Through The Looking Glass
Forgot one.
ABC – “Always be closing.“
….and lastly, Realtors Are Liars
Alec Baldwin speech – Glengarry Glen Ross – Always Be Closing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrhSLf0I-HM
Profit-taking is going to get a lot harder with increased supply and decreased demand. I’m already seeing six figure price reductions. I don’t think panic is too far off.
Federal Student Aid Policy:
A History and an Assessment
Lawrence E. Gladieux
1978. In an off-year of the reauthorization cycle, but under pressure for
some kind of response to the perceived middle-income squeeze in financing college costs, Congress passed the Middle Income Student Assistance Act (MISAA) of 1978. As in 1965, tuition tax credit proposals had built up another head of steam in Congress. To head them off, congressional Democrats and the Carter Administration developed a counterproposal to widen eligibility for Pell Grants and open subsidized guaranteed loans to any student regardless of income or financial need.
https://www2.ed.gov/offices/OPE/PPI/FinPostSecEd/gladieux.html
“widen eligibility for Pell Grants and open subsidized guaranteed loans to any student regardless of income or financial need.”
That happened in 1978.
This came out in 1974.
A poor girl wants to marry
And a rich girl wants to flirt
A rich man goes to college
And a poor man goes to work
Long Haired Country Boy
Charlie Daniels
https://youtu.be/oMKOXZiEhqg
MSM polling data is as fake as BLS inflation stats, but even Biden’s media cheerleaders and their statistical fakery can’t hide his growing unpopularity.
Biden’s approval level plunges 6 percentage points in new poll to worst-yet 50% – almost as low as Trump’s HIGHEST-ever rating of 49%
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9821749/Bidens-approval-level-plunges-6-percentage-points-new-poll-worst-50.html
From Dr. Peter McCollough via https://americaoutloud.com/america-singing-the-delta-blues/
The SARS-CoV-2 virus and the COVID-19 pandemic have taken another dramatic turn in the last few weeks. America has jumped in one reporting cycle from approximately 30% Delta variant to 83% as of CDC reports on July 17, 2021. On June 11, 2021, the UK Variant report indicated that in addition to the seven mutations (3 major) in Delta that an additional mutation 417N had been found in a “Delta Plus” variant that almost certainly played a role in the most recent flare we are seeing across the globe.
Delta and Delta Plus appear to be infecting equally those unvaccinated and vaccinated as shown from data in the UK and Israel. This is very different from what is in major media at this time which has the government-issued talking point “we have a current crisis of the unvaccinated.”
Americans know when they get a COVID-19 test, no one is checking to see if they have previously had the vaccine or where they are in the process. So of course, any reporting of COVID-19 cases cannot possibly distinguish who has had the vaccine and who has not. The CDC announced in late April after over 10,000 vaccine failures that they were going to scrub any further reporting of breakthroughs probably because of the labor-intensive nature of receiving sporadic cases from local departments of public health and then centralizing the data at the CDC.
Vaccine failures must have involved some phone calls or verification that indeed the patient was sick and in fact they previously were vaccinated with enough time in between to develop immunity. Unlike the UK and Israel, the US does not have the stream of laboratory data from COVID-19 tests and the data from the CDC/FDA public vaccination program integrated so analyses could be done both on negative and positive tests.
About 40% of hospitalizations in the UK and 60% in Israel are in those previously vaccinated and with the obvious failure of the vaccine to protect against Delta or Delta Plus. One thing is clear, those who have natural immunity from prior COVID-19 infection have robust, complete, and durable immunity and they are not coming down with the “Delta blues.”
Fortunately, Delta is the mildest form of COVID-19 so far as the mutations have peppered the Spike protein, in and around the gain-of-function furin cleavage joint, rendering the virion far less dangerous. Seniors should still seek early treatment to avoid hospitalization and death. Indeed, cases of Delta hospitalization and death that are mentioned deserve one question: why the patient didn’t receive early ambulatory treatment and how can this be avoided in the future.
Hospitalizations and deaths should be very rare provided everyone is alert in seeking early ambulatory treatment as advised by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPSOnline.org).
I apologize for the length. I tried providing excerpts but he does give a lot a valuable information in a relatively short manner. I bolded what I think are the key takeaways.
Is it possible that rather than the Delta infecting the previously vaccinated, that the jab gave these people Covid 19, or the original Covid got them?
And if these vaccines are so ineffective that the protection period is so short, and your not protected from variants, it seems like the med protocols are the best solution .
And, they are talking about the up tick in cases claiming they are Delta, but what is the death count. And just how are they making the determination that the cases are Delta? If they are using the same old PCR tests.
It just seems like they want more lockdowns and EUA authorization for the booster shot.
I have heard them say on California Main stream news that Delta is more deadly, and its the unvaccinated that’s comprising the cases.
So, I think its all a big con job and its nothing but fake news narratives and these pigs don’t care who they harm.
but what is the death count.
Take a look at Australia. They are going lockdown crazy right now over “cases”. Deaths “with Covid” since last October totals 1. That’s One over the entire period.
If the PCR test looks for the spike protein, and the so-called vaccine makes your body produce the spike protein, an exact copy of it, does the vaccine itself make you test positive?
PCR amplifies and detects nucleic acids. Proteins are made of amino acids. DNA is transcribed to RNA which is translated to protein. The PCR test could very well be detecting the mRNA that is injected.
From Roche’s cobas SARS-CoV-2 Instructions for Use:
Selective amplification of target nucleic acid from the sample is achieved by the use of target-specific forward and reverse primers for ORF1 a/b non-structural region that is unique to SARS-CoV-2. Additionally, a conserved region in the structural protein envelope E-gene were chosen for pan-Sarbecovirus detection. The pan-Sarbecovirus detection sets will also detect SARS-CoV-2 virus.
The PCR test could very well be detecting the mRNA that is injected.
Assuming other companies are detecting the same region as Roche and the genetic juices only have mRNA or DNA encoding the spike protein, this is not the case.
pan-Sarbecovirus detection.
I took one semester of genetics about 50 years ago. I don’t understand what you copied and pasted exactly. Partly, yes. You took law, right?
Anyhow, I don’t think my question specifically was answered here.
I don’t think my question specifically was answered here
Roche’s PCR test is not detecting the mRNA of DNA encoding the spike protein. Roche is a diagnostics giant.
You took law, right?
I have a BS in biochemistry from UCLA, a JD from Boston University and an MBA from UCSD. When I worked for a diagnostics company, I evaluated Roche’s foundational PCR patents as well as some other aspects of their patent portfolio.
target-specific forward and reverse primers for ORF1 a/b non-structural region that is unique to SARS-CoV-2
of
or
med protocols are the best solution
Yes
And just how are they making the determination that the cases are Delta?
Probably sequencing
Delta is more deadly, and its the unvaccinated that’s comprising the cases
The Narrative
It makes no sense that the “unvaccinated” are driving mutations. The “vaccinated” are the ones exerting evolutionary pressure on the virus. Geert Vanden Bossche warned about this quite some time ago.
Thank you for the summary, Redhead.
infecting equally those unvaccinated and vaccinated as shown from data in the UK and Israel.
I could never figure out if that “equally” normalized for the population. But even if the infections are “equal,” the outcomes are not. Vax is getting the flu, non-vax is going to hospital. The “crisis” is hospitalization, not the cases.
gain-of-function furin cleavage joint
That engineered furin cleavage joint is the piece that makes this virus infectious to humans. One of the Delta mutations changes that furin cleavage to cleave even better, which is why it’s so much more contagious. (Per Chris Martenson)
no one is checking to see if they have previously had the vaccine
Sounds like he’s making things up. Even though the CDC isn’t compiling data, the States are. The states don’t need to ask your vax status. They took down your name and DOB and possibly SS# both at the vax site and test site. It’s not hard to match up the tests with the vaxes.
the outcomes are not. Vax is getting the flu, non-vax is going to hospital.
“About 40% of hospitalizations in the UK and 60% in Israel are in those previously vaccinated and with the obvious failure of the vaccine to protect against Delta or Delta Plus.”
This the problem with summaries: subjective importance.
vax site and test site
Isn’t it possible to be jabbed and tested by sites not affiliated with a state?
Isn’t it possible to be jabbed and tested by sites not affiliated with a state?
You can get the clot shot, with no wait, at the local Safeway and King Soopers (Kroger) pharmacies.
CVS and Target offer them here. Are they tied to the state? Are LabCorp and Quest tied to the state too? If not, then it would be very hard to match jabs and tests.
Few sites will show this!
Protesters Rage Across Europe As Lockdown, Vaccination Mandates Begin
They even have protests going on in Italy, Greece, Australia, and Japan of all places.
Its all in protest of lockdowns, vaccine passports, and mandated vaccines.
They had it a lot worse than we did , so they are finally rebelling in big numbers. Good sign. Hope America does the same thing. This had to be organized to be in so many Countries at the same time.
Yes,yes yes yes yes
Wow, they even have signs saying SAVE THE CHILDREN. Ireland even has protests going,
Signs about Medical Tyranny.
I was hoping that people would reject the vaccination of children. And they are protesting the stupid masks also. Also protests in Spain, Poland 270 different Countries or places I though I heard.
signs saying SAVE THE CHILDREN
They must be conspiracy theorists too. 🙄
Also in Singapore, data says 75 % of cases are the vaccinated . So are the vaccinated contagious and should the unvaccinated stay away from them.
Some vaccine
Clinical trials did not address infection or transmission, only severity of disease in relatively healthy individuals. To make matters worse, they destroyed the control arms of the studies after getting the EUAs by “vaccinating” the placebo group.
What I think about is the bill!ions of waste toward gain of function, vaccines etc. when the research should of gone toward meds that combat respiratory emergency.
Look at how fast those Drs came up with med protocols that had high effectiveness, using cheap drugs, but they were interested in saving lives.
Emergency Use authorization for untested new tech vaccines, while life saving meds are suppressed, over a Panademic you have to use a fake test to establish cases.
What is obvious is this unjustified Panademic with lockdowns and masks and untested vaccines, and all the Medical Tyranny in many a Country was so they could control people and give constant jabs, and force these programs and get vaccine passports and mandated vaccines.
The corrupted Governments and Government agencies working in collusion with Big Pharmacy on this outrageous assault on freedoms by a epic unjustified Medical fraud.
I knew that something sinister was up when they passed the Commie Obama care with the IRS as enforcement. It was a looting attack on the middle and upper middle class.
Fake news, Fake Panademic, Fake PCR tests, fake global lockdowns and masks, Fake 2020 election, 24/7 fake narratives, and vaccines that aren’t safe.
The vaccinated claiming the unvaccinated should be punished and forced to take the jab or hauled off and isolated.Government around the World mandating vaccines and vaccine passports and children take the jab.
Europe pushing back by these protests in huge numbers is a very good sign that people are waking up to these sinister agendas .
Dr. Meryl Nass – Here is how you do the Big Lie/ CNBC and the 99.5% of deaths in the unvaccinated [July 22, 2021]:
The numbers cannot be verified by the press, or by me, or by anyone who does not have an official list of the vaccinated. Most people were vaccinated in mass clinics. The vaccinations are not in their medical records. There are no insurance claims for the vaccine, which was free. While the states and CDC do have those lists, somewhere, CDC has previously claimed it could not match the list of the vaccinated to reported post-vaccination deaths to corroborate and evaluate them.
https://factcheckvaccine.com/2021/07/dr-meryl-nass-here-is-how-you-do-the-big-lie-cnbc-and-the-99-5-of-deaths-in-the-unvaccinated-july-22-2021/
There is no way that any State can match up the vaccination records with Covid-19 test results, hospitalizations and any clinical measure or outcome. Trust me, we do not have centralized/socialized medical records in this country. Even in a place like Kaiser Permanente, the largest HMO in the country which provides all services to its members (it owns the clinics, labs, hospitals, doctors, etc.), it would be an enormous job to match up all of the Covid-19 related data within their massive mainframe databases.
And at Kaiser, not all members are using Kaiser facilities for vaccinations and testing. Most people are NOT members of the Kaiser system, so the medical records of most people are scattered in thousands of unlinked databases. So it is essentially impossible to know who got what vaccine, what their Covid-19 test results were, what kind of signs and symptoms they came down with, and whether a person was hospitalized. It would be completely impossible to match any Covid-19 vaccination data with hospitalization data (e.g., diagnosis, test results, treatments, etc.). America doesn’t do centralized medical record keeping because it is literally impossible to do.
So quit yammering about imaginary data that you think exists about people with Covid-19. Besides, having a positive Covid-19 test does NOT MEAN THAT A PERSON IS ACTUALLY INFECTED!
Just look at the shape of the death curves across the States and around the World. This Covid-19 pandemic is making a hasty retreat, new variants notwithstanding.
I’ve seen so much nonsense across the internet about this stupid disease and it is obvious that virtually nobody has actually worked with and analyzed large medical record databases, or has any experience in collecting and analyzing data related to infectious diseases and hospitalizations. Most people don’t even know what “medical record” databases ARE, much less what they contain. How many people have even worked with ICD codes or mortality data?
The only people who do are very specialized biostatisticians and a small number of people that do public health research. Most clinical data in this country is completely off-limits to EVERYONE, even the Government. In order for anyone, including the government to gain access to your medical records, they have to write up a research study plan and this plan has to get approved by human subjects and all kinds of committees. And even if a study were to be approved, actually getting the data is even harder because, like I’ve said, medical data is dispersed in an infinite variety of proprietary databases which would have to be linked and managed to even get anything useful out.
And the number of people that have the skills and brains to do these kinds of things is very small (because there’s no need for this kind of research).
The available data on Covid-19, even if it is far from perfect, all is telling a consistent story at least in this country. The shape of the death curves in all States that I’ve glanced at, California, South Dakota, Arizona, Texas, New York and Florida, all have a similar distribution. And the one thing that all have in common is that the number of deaths is getting close to zero. So who cares what Variant XXYZZ does clinically if it doesn’t end up killing anybody or making them seriously ill?
We’re in the middle of summer now and this is the season which kills off respiratory viruses. Covid peaked in January and had a blip in the spring, but now like last year, the cases are going way down. Just keep your eyes on the curves for the next month. If they stay where they are now, then this thing will be over soon.
So quit yammering about imaginary data that you think exists about people with Covid-19.
I posted this to show matching vax and test data is not as simple as oxide claims. I understand how decentralized our health care system and IMO that’s a good thing.
If Covid-19 deaths continue their downward trend, then there will be no reason for anyone to receive the vaccine. It would be like vaccinating you for last year’s flu.
I believe you on the medical records, but the last part of your post is crap.
So who cares what Variant XXYZZ does clinically if it doesn’t end up killing anybody or making them seriously ill?
Because clinically, Delta variant does kill people. Delta is only non-deadly if you get vaxxed. That’s why almost all of the deaths are in the unvaxed population. That’s why public health officials care.
number of deaths is getting close to zero
Same reason, bucky. Death rates are closer to zero because the vaccine prevents death, and those most likely to die have been vaccinated. The deaths are not trending downward by themselves. We are actively forcing the deaths downward with vaccines (and in some areas, prophylactic ivermectin).
We’re in the middle of summer now and this is the season which kills off respiratory viruses.
Spain would like to have a word with you. Ditto for most of Southeast Asia.
I do agree that this will be over soon. One way or another.
Sure thing Dr. Donk.
bucky. Death rates are closer to zero because the vaccine prevents death
The shape of the epidemic curve is the same where vaccinations have been high and where they have been quite low. Look at deaths. There is no data suggesting that vaccines have had any effect.
Australia wants a word with you.
Too many variables to make a simple comparison, Blue. The shape of the peaks are affected by the country’s reporting system, timing of the peaks 2-3 weeks after holidays/travel, masking and lockdowns (Australia), use of ivermectin/HCQ, and most importantly, the arrival of the arrival of the Delta variant, which skews the other variables.* Also, are you accounting for the amplitude of the curves? The shape may be the same, but without the vaccine, the amplitude would have been much higher.
I think we’ll see a much better comparison in about a month, when we start seeing data-significant deaths from Delta. Then we can directly compare the case fatality rates in high-vax states to low-vax states.
—————-
Delta (in the vaxxed) is presenting as so mild, and looks so much like allergies or a cold, that people are less likely to be tested and therefore cases are underreported. In addition IMHO, the high viral load in Delta is likely enough to evade masks and social distancing, in areas where the public still accepts lockdowns.
Delta (in the vaxxed) is presenting as so mild
Israel and UK would like a word with you.
And I forgot a variable, Blue: the demographics of the vaccinated population. States like Louisiana and Missouri might only be 50% vaccinated, but if that 50% covers all of the most vulnerable demographics (65+, comorbidities), then the differences in case fatality rate between states would be much less. That would make it LOOK like we didn’t need the vax at all, but really it would just emphasize the need for the vulnerable to be vaxxed. To accurately trend whether the vax was needed, we would have to compare case fatality rates broken down by age.
And yes, this supports the Swedish model of protecting the vulnerable and allowing naturally-acquired herd immunity for everybody else. Now that we have a vax which prevents death 85%+ and a variant which promises to infect almost everyone very quickly, that model is looking a viable option. And that’s the option we have anyway. People (US) and governments (UK) have largely decided to let this run its course.
are you accounting for the amplitude of the curves?
No. The shape is the significant thing. “Would have been worse” is conjecture. Around here the peak was passed before the vaccines were used, so the shape should have been distorted.
The principle is Farr’s law, which we’ve discussed. If the curve follows a natural symmetry, no external effects need to be considered significant.
This demonstrates that masks, lockdowns, holidays, vaccines, reporting systems all did not help or hurt significantly. Everywhere.
I refuse to believe that we would have the same sickness and death, with or without NPIs and vaccines. May as well ditch the HCQ and Ivermectin too.
I refuse to believe
We Hope, because we fear. If we hope really hard, it’s Belief. I’m not without hope, I just would like to see it realized in a demonstrable way. I am also put off by the global misinformation program. I don’t like to sort through a pile of manure to find a kernel of corn.
NPIs and vaccines. May as well ditch the HCQ and Ivermectin too
What happened to middle ground? It’s not all or nothing. Some interventions are backed by studies while others aren’t. I prefer to base my opinions on studies published before 2020 when possible to avoid the bias and corruption we’ve seen in the last 18 months.
vaccine prevents death
Where are the clinical trials showing that?
Israel and UK would like a word with you.
They have already had words. Israel takes granular data on symptoms in vaxxed people, as does the ZOE symptom tracker in UK. That how we know that Delta is mild in the unvaxxed in the first place.
Where are the clinical trials showing that?
In the vaccine trial data. Or are you petulantly demanding an gold standard academic control-trial, like Fauci did for HCQ? It’s a little late for that, not to mention unethical.
As for real population data, Israel and UK, and even the US, have enough data to show prevention of hospitalization. At least in Western countries with good health systems, preventing hospitalization would prevent death too.* Hence the phrase “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” Even so, that case rate fatality data will be skewed by the demographics of who is vaxxed. See my comment about vaccine demographics.
————
*and no, don’t give me BS about finding ONE death and saying “See, the vaccine doesn’t prevent death, so there.” The vaccine appears to prevent 90%+ of death.
In the vaccine trial data.
Link, please?
Or are you petulantly demanding an gold standard academic control-trial, like Fauci did for HCQ? It’s a little late for that, not to mention unethical.
I’m asking you to support your claims.
Oxide: “…The deaths are not trending downward by themselves. We are actively forcing the deaths downward with vaccines (and in some areas, prophylactic ivermectin).”
Please look at this graph for California:
https://covid19.ca.gov/state-dashboard/
Observe the “Confirmed deaths in California” distribution. What do you see? Deaths peaked in the first weeks of January, then the bottom dropped out of curve.
Question: Does this curve demonstrate that it is a function of the public health measures (mask wearing, lockdowns, vaccine, etc) put in place by the State? Did the effects of the vaccine cause the death rate from Covid 19 to suddenly drop in January?
If you answered, “Yes”, then you just flunked your beginning Biostatistics or Epidemiology class at The University of Phoenix.
I don’t wish to belittle you and your lack of knowledge, but have you ever take ANY class in epidemiology, infectious disease epidemiology or biostatistics? Because if you did, you obviously didn’t learn a thing.
Short answer: yes, but inversely. The waves of cases and deaths in July 2020, December 2020, and January 2021 were a result of not following NPIs and lockdowns. Each wave was after a travel holiday, right on schedule. The wave subsided when people stopped traveling, put the masks back on, and went back into partial lockdown. The vaccine had nothing to do with these curves.
I think the vaccine DID push down deaths in the small peak in mid-April. There was a small case peak in April, possibly corresponding to vaccinated senior citizens going maskless and getting breakthrough cases. However, the death peak did not increase 3 weeks later, as it had in the past. The vaccine had turned potential deaths into cases.
I guess I fail. Maybe you could enlighten me.
I’m not sure what to expect next, since NPIs are largely gone and IMO they won’t work against Delta anyway. I guess we’ll see one big peak as almost everybody gets exposed to Delta in the period of 2-3 months? And possibly another peak as people go back to school and the office. Then small peaks until herd immunity.
Whatever will happen, it looks like the CDC is satisfied with people who have been vaxxed.
Oxide: “…Death rates are closer to zero because the vaccine prevents death, and those most likely to die have been vaccinated. The deaths are not trending downward by themselves.”
Prove it. Please supply data which supports your assertion. I’m waiting….
Bring a book. May I suggest Marcel Proust’s “In Search of Lost Time.”
Oxide: “…I think the vaccine DID push down deaths in the small peak in mid-April. There was a small case peak in April, possibly corresponding to vaccinated senior citizens going maskless and getting breakthrough cases. However, the death peak did not increase 3 weeks later, as it had in the past. The vaccine had turned potential deaths into cases…”
Now you’re just making things up–you expect anyone to believe that human beings can control or influence an epidemic down to a period of a couple of weeks? Show me the evidence that proves that ANYTHING or ANY MEASURE humans have done has had any effect on the pandemic curves.
The real problem caused by Covid-19 is that it has created millions of people who now think that they know what they are talking about–they think they are experts because they watched a couple of videos by snake oil salesmen on YouTube. The internet age has created an entire generation of ignorant “know-it-all” fools. In the old days the only way you’d be able to become informed about epidemiology, biostatistics and epidemics would be to find a large biomedical library and spend a couple of months reading a lot of books and scientific articles.
Now everybody is an expert in 20 minutes. You are so ignorant that you literally don’t even know what you don’t know.
Arlington, VA Housing Prices Crater 15% As Mad Rush To Unload Housing Accelerates Across Northern VA
https://www.movoto.com/arlington-va/market-trends/
As one Arlington County broker explained, “Double digit price slashing is what’s on the menu going forward.”
Please review the following death data curves:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/#graph-deaths-daily
https://doh.sd.gov/COVID/Dashboard.aspx
(Click on the “Deaths” tab)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/
You get the idea–this “pandemic” all seems to heading in the same direction around the world.
I could care less what the Alfa Romeo Variant is doing as long as it’s not killing people.
Here’s what the situation is now: If a person hasn’t already been infected with Covid-19 by now, then this person by definition is “Low Risk.”
They might be Low Risk because of their genetics or other predisposition, or because they haven’t had any contact with an infected person. Doesn’t matter, because the definition of “Low Risk” is that you don’t get the disease (e.g., Covid-19, cancer, heart disease etc.) easily or early on in an epidemic.
This situation is like my aunt who passed away peacefully at 102. She always had a “weak” heart and had a double valve-replacement done when she was 79, but she didn’t die from heart disease. She died of old age.
If my aunt said to her doctor, “I’m so afraid that my “weak” heart is going to kill me!”
Doctor: “But Mrs. Jones, you’re already 95 years old!”
There’s a reason why people who actually know something about matters like Covid-19 don’t post on internet forums: They’re too busy doing real research or medicine. I’m retired so that’s my excuse.
Hey Oxide, take a look at this curve of deaths from Covid-19 in Los Angeles County (population 10,000,000, larger than many states):
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/Coronavirus/data/index.htm#graph-deaths
Yessirie Bob, the Delta Variant is killing people like the Plague. Look at the last FOUR MONTHS worth of data from L.A. Dropping like flies!
The real casualty of this “pandemic” has been freedom. Across the world and in this country, all aspects of freedom enjoyed in modern democracies have been damaged or destroyed. Countries have turned into dictatorships run by decree.
This has been caused in part by the Karens and Kens of the world. They’re the same people that caused Hitler and Mao to murder countless millions of their own people. Look at the nonsense going on in Australia right now.
Oxide is just one example of a Karen who if given her wishes, would enslave America. Fortunately that won’t happen in this country for lots of good reasons.
Karens and Kens of the world who worship at the vaccine church but claim to follow the science.
“the science”
Science Fiction. Scripted especially for the helpless, hopeless and feckless.
Oxide is just one example of a Karen who if given her wishes, would enslave America.
Please reserve such language for our liberal Administration and their media lackeys who want to segregate and take rights away from the unvaxxed.
would enslave America.
Oxy doesn’t want to enslave anyone else.
She just wants the unvaxxed to die because that’s what we asked for.
From the criminally rigged election , to unjustified Panademics with forced untested vaccines, to fake news with censorship 24/7, these are not the conditions where I take a jab that’s being pushed by a bunch of criminals or fraudulent narrative news.
To much corruption, extortion, bribery and fraud going on to pull off agendas by these Entities that want to take over the World. Lockdowns and mandates in other Countries with it going toward total vaccine passports and ongoing surveillance.
These Countries protested yesterday in a big way, but I haven’t seen that the US is even covering such a epic protest in so many places.
Whatever they are doing in Europe, they want to do it in the US to US Citizens.
They want a second lockdown in spite of any justification for it by Sept. A critical mass has to say no way , like they seemed to be saying yesterday in all those Countries with the protest.
If the current trends continue, i.e. the number of Covid-19 related deaths keeps going down regardless of which variant is to “blame”, then it’s going to be impossible for any governmental agency to impose restrictions, lockdowns, masking rules AND vaccination recommendations on the public. Across the world Covid-19 is running out of gas all on its own.
Remember, even if a new variant came around tomorrow, the vast majority of the population has already been exposed to Covid-19 in one form or another. So you shouldn’t expect the same kind of epidemic that occurred last year–back then, nobody had ANY immunity to this virus. And it is increasing clear that some populations, mainly in Asia, have a substantial natural immunity to Covid-19. That’s why the number of cases in Japan and other countries like it have had so few cases.
Those populations have had much more exposure to other Corona viruses compared to the West. So there’s plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Just keep your eyes on the number of deaths through August. There’s a definite trend and I’ll bet a pastrami sandwich that the trend will continue DOWN.
The thing about that Pastrami sandwich is that a thing can be going down and the Boss Class will say it is going up drastically. They’ll broadcast nasty visuals, constant commercials and drag out their compliant scientists, then try to make more rules and spend more money.
Like right now.
and the Boss Class will say it is going up drastically
Indeed. Look at how they’re saying that it’s the unvaxxed who are getting sick and dying, while just about every other country is reporting that it’s the vaxxed who are getting sick.
Here’s what I do know: Even though we are 100% open here in my little burg I haven’t heard through the grapevine of anyone getting sick.
I am a bit stunned by the state of utter fear so many are in. They are beyond help.
The State of Fear has been slowly and methodically manufactured by the government and medical industry. This has happened before with the AIDS epidemic. Many people don’t remember what happened then since many alive today weren’t even born yet.
And Fauci and the CDC were at the center of the AIDS Panic, too. The Federal Government’s message to all Americans in the late 1980s was that EVERYBODY was at risk of getting AIDS and that in a few years everybody in America would know someone who had the disease—family member, friend, co-worker.
They did this to hide the fact that the AIDS epidemic was primarily being caused by the behavior of Gay males, specifically Gay WHITE males, and to a lesser extent IV drug abusers who shared needles. True heterosexual transmission virtually never happened. But the CDC and Fauci lied and said that AIDS would be breaking out in the heterosexual community just like it did in the Gay community.
This was an absolute lie–AIDS never did become a heterosexual disease and to this day it has stayed primarily in the Gay and IV drug abusing community. And the problem in the IV drug abusers was easily solved with clean needle exchanges and bleach kits. What hasn’t changed is the sexual behavior of Gay males.
Back in the old days, the sexual behavior of Gay males would make most “normal” people sick. In the early CDC studies, it was discovered that Gays with AIDS had an incredible number of lifetime anonymous sexual partners–in some studies the number was in the hundreds! Why? Because they would visit bathhouses and have sex with multiple partners everyday. You get the drift.
Heterosexuals, even the most promiscuous ones, never had behavior like that. But the facts of why AIDS exploded into a full blown epidemic were too harmful to the image of the White Gay Community so the CDC and medical establishment just changed the story and said that all Americans were at the same risk.
It was a complete lie and the predictions of AIDS becoming a problem in the general population never became reality. Yet people were terrified by this bogus message. You had everyday Americans worried that if they had sex with their partners they might get infected. It was panic in the streets.
Does this sound familiar?
And Fauci was at the center of that LIE, too.
They did this to hide the fact that the AIDS epidemic was primarily being caused by the behavior of Gay males
I recall the wholesale denial of this. Given the level of fear they tried to generate back then, I’m surprised they didn’t try to mask us up and house arrest us.
Then, very quietly, the true nature of its transmission was admitted.
This has happened before with the AIDS epidemic.
Swine flu too.
Hey Karen, why don’t you just stick with baking cookies on Sunday afternoon. By any reasonable standard, a well informed person could quite correctly come to the conclusion that they should not take the risk of receiving a Covid-19 vaccine.
These vaccines have a horrible safety record–the worst adverse event record in modern history. And if you are in a low risk group, you are not going to buy yourself ANY benefit. All you’ll be doing is exposing yourself to the risk of death or serious injury. The ABSOLUTE risk reduction in getting vaccinated for a low risk person goes down an imperceptible and meaningless amount while the risk of death or serious injury goes up an enormous amount.
So quit talking out of both sides of your mouth when referring to the people who refuse to be vaccinated. Nobody should have confidence in our public health leaders like the NIH, CDC or State and Local Health Departments because they have been caught lying, creating bogus statistics, and being influenced by foreign entities (e.g. WHO) and powers (e.g. China) who don’t have the best interests of Americans in mind.
In any sane world, only the high risk people would be vaccinated. In a sane world we would take the measures taken by South Dakota and Sweden. It’s all politics now, public health has long been eliminated from this emergency. In fact this “emergency” has been artificially created by political and business leaders across the globe. It’s like a chapter out of “1984”.
These vaccines have a horrible safety record–the worst adverse event record in modern history.
Imagine if an unnamed jet airliner had so many crashes in the US that it had a comparable death count as the kill shot. There is no way that jet would be allowed to fly, probably ever again. Consider again that said unnamed jet actually had a zero death count in the the US, but did have a few hundred victims world wide. It was grounded until it could be proven to be safe.
Yet we are being told that we nothing to worry about. Now bare that arm!
Hey Karen, why don’t you just stick with baking cookies
Right or wrong, you’ve got quite a case of antisocial something going on.
Medicine is an inherently anti-social business because most of the time, people die or are permanently disfigured or disabled by its failures. The only other business that is MORE anti-social is the military since their job is to only kill people.
If you can’t take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Women demand to be treated the same as men yet when you call them a bad name or make a “sexist remark”, they cry and charge you with a felony. Oxide is a prime example–I was in the medical and public health business for 30 years so when a complete amateur nobody calls me a piece of “crap”, well they better be willing to take a counterattack.
Almost all of the medical and public health problems in any developed nation are due to the ignorance, biases and idiocy of its citizens. Yet these same idiots, like Oxide, have the nerve to act like experts when in reality they are completely ignorant. Get the hell out of the kitchen if you don’t like the heat because the real heat will kill you.
Since it is becoming increasing obvious that the Covid-19 vaccines do not prevent people from contracting Covid-19, why should anyone be receiving it at all?
And if the number of Covid-19 cases goes to zero or a trifle amount being equivalent to background pneumonia deaths that occur 365 days of the year, who needs a Covid-19 vaccination? The obvious answer to why politicians and Big Pharma want to keep pushing vaccines is that they are making BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. And many of these billions of dollars are being given to politicians and their PACs.
It should be expected that Covid-19, including all its variants, will all disappear soon all on their own since that’s what all serious airborne viruses have done in the past. So what’s the big push with getting populations vaccinated when the number of deaths from Covid-19 keeps dropping lower and lower?
Answer: They want a “1984” world. It’s all about power. And the people should just start rioting in a REAL way starting with the homes of politicians and scientists like Faux-XI.
They want a “1984” world.
And they tried their best. Other than in a few places like Clownifornia or New Yawk, most refused accepting long term house arrest.
On the other hand, the rest of the Anglosphere rolled over and played dead. Australia is back under house arrest, and I’m sure NZ, Canaduh and the UK are not far behind.
The US has two things going for it: guns and decentralized health care.
All of the Brits, Australians and New Zealanders are eunuchs because they’ve all been disarmed by their monarchs or leaders. That’s why the British are obsessed with sexual deviants and perverts–they’ve made that into a national pastime since they lost their virility hundreds of years ago.
Remember the “Inspector Morse” detective shows from the BBC? The original series, not the newer ones. The vast majority of the episodes involved some sort of sexual perversion or deviancy as the underlying plot. They couldn’t just make shows where the police busted drug gangs or terrorists. I got tired of looking at the perversions of the Brits. That’s why they are all screwed up there–just look at Boris Johnson, you can’t tell me that he is normal!
“…just look at Boris Johnson…”
Incest is best? 🙂
” They want a “1984” World.”
You better believe that’s what they want. A bunch of psychopaths if you ask me.
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