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No Question, More Pain Is Coming

A report from the Austin Business Journal in Texas. “More evidence is rolling in that indicates the period of rapidly increasing monthly housing prices may be coming to an end. The Austin Board of Realtors’ most recent market update, released Sept. 16, shows since June, prices have fallen slightly each month. Inventory — while admittedly still very low — is the highest it’s been in the metro since October. The city of Austin’s median price was $540,000 in August. This is less than the July median price of $574,975.”

“‘A lot of buyers actually are still sitting on the sidelines, because they were traumatized by what they were reading about and maybe even experiencing in the spring,’ said Lilly Rockwell, a Realtor with Compass. ‘There’s still a lot of buyers who are hesitant to dip their toe back into the market.'”

From WCNC in North Carolina. “Buyers fed up with losing bidding wars are now opting to just sit on the sidelines and wait it out. Charlotte’s housing prices are going down as a result. David Hoffman, a veteran real estate agent and broker, believes the market is showing signs of slowing down. ‘We are starting to see supply pick up just ever so slightly,’ Hoffman said. ‘We are also starting to see more and more buyers get buyer fatigue.'”

“So, buyers who want to move could be fading out of the picture for a moment compared to those who have to move, like those in a job transfer. When the housing market turns, experts say it tends to turn quickly. I am starting to see fewer bidding wars, fewer buyers where there are bidding wars, and a few extra days on the market,’ Hoffman said. ‘Just a little less excitement than the summer and spring that just passed.'”

The Idaho Statesman. “The ‘Boise Boys’ are putting a fresh coat of paint on their home-improvement concept. Instead of renovating and selling homes, the duo will help Idaho families retool their current places. With housing prices at jaw-dropping levels in the Treasure Valley, it made sense to move on from ‘Boise Boys.’ After all, how many house-flipping bargains remain in Idaho’s capital city?”

From CBS Los Angeles. “The Southern California housing market was booming this summer, and now experts said it is cooling off in the fall. Realtor Jennifer Eckert said once people got vaccinated they wanted to get out and travel due to buyer fatigue after things had been so competitive for so long. ‘It’s transitioning more to a bit of a normalized market so maybe where there were 10 to 12 offers or more maybe you got two to five, still great, you still have strong buyers, it’s just not as frenetic,’ said Eckert.”

The Orange County Register. “Southern California homebuyers took their feet off the gas pedal last month, causing the region’s white-hot housing market to level off after six months of record-setting price gains. Homes now are taking longer to sell, and there’s fewer bidding wars, agents say. The supply of homes for sale also has ticked up steadily over the past few months, giving buyers more selection and less incentive to bid higher for desired homes.”

“‘The real estate market right now is cooling down a little bit compared to a few months ago because there are more houses for sale and … the buyers are more cautious,’ said Lily Campbell, an agent with First Team Real Estate in Irvine. More sellers are reducing their asking prices, Zillow reported. Homes selling below asking prices increased 10.7% in Los Angeles and Orange counties and by 10.3% in Riverside and San Bernardino counties.”

“Agents across the region have been seeing this trend for two months. ‘Three months ago, (home shoppers) would buy no matter what. No matter the condition, no matter the price,’ said real estate broker Harma Hartouni of Keller Williams Encino-Sherman Oaks. ‘Now, they’re more cautious about what they’re getting.'”

“Homes that are priced too aggressively are sitting on the market longer, added Susan Stone, a broker associate at Beverly and Company Luxury Properties in Sherman Oaks. ‘There are fewer bidding wars,’ Stone said. ‘Prices are leveling off. They’re not going up like they were before.'”

The Real Deal on Florida. “Nicky Jam has a new pad in downtown Miami. The reggaeton artist paid $6 million for a 4,600-square-foot unit at One Thousand Museum. Earlier this year, the tower’s developers closed on a $90 million condo inventory loan from Cirrus Real Estate Partners. The closing came less than three weeks after an entity led by the Reuben Brothers filed a foreclosure lawsuit against the developers.”

From The Sun. “Shaquille O’Neal’s lavish £12million Florida mansion is still on the market having undergone a huge facelift. The NBA legend’s pad in Orlando has had £8MILLION slashed off the asking price in an attempt to find a buyer.”

From Patch New York. “Do you feel like affordable houses are pretty tough to find in your community? Don’t lose hope yet. A tour of the most recently foreclosed homes in the West Village area might be your best bet! We’ve gathered new foreclosures to help potential buyers in the area see what is out there.”

The New Daily in Australia. “Property investors keen on snapping up inner-city pads in Sydney and Melbourne have been warned not to expect to make a quick buck on their investment. CoreLogic shows in the 12 months leading up to March 2021, Sydney’s inner-city median asking rents fell by 14.5 per cent from $620 per week to $530.They fell even further in inner-city Melbourne – dropping by 18.9 per cent over the year from $475 per week to $385.”

“Suburbanite director Anna Porter said an oversupply of one-bedroom and studio units designed with students in mind had affected the market for years, with COVID-19 only exacerbating the issue. ‘That supply is starting to really cripple the market,’ she said. ‘It’s not balanced any more – there’s an oversupply issue that’s just not being absorbed.'”

“Even when Australia’s borders do open, it may take some time for international students and travellers to travel to Australia in the same numbers they did before the pandemic, especially while mandatory quarantine periods are still in place, said Wakelin Property Advisory director Jarrod McCabe. Although he referred to small inner-city units as ‘infinite assets,’ due to these properties being continuously built in major cities despite a lack of demand, he and Ms Porter agreed it could be wiser to invest in suburban or regional areas.”

The Globe and Mail. “Mounting problems at China Evergrande, the hugely indebted Chinese property developer, are rattling global financial markets as investors worry about the potential for an Asian reprise of the U.S. financial crisis of more than a decade ago. The disturbing parallel on many minds is the collapse of the U.S. investment bank Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. When Lehman Brothers, a major holder of subprime mortgage debt, filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2008, the global financial system froze and stock markets plunged.”

“‘Evergrande has the potential to be the largest corporate debt default ever, with spillovers to other financial institutions, Evergrande’s suppliers, homeowners, wealth product holders, other property companies, and onward and outward,’ warned Alan Ruskin, a macro strategist at Deutsche Bank, in a note Monday.”

“‘The [Chinese] property sector is a mess and, no question, more pain is coming,’ said Leland Miller, chief executive officer of China Beige Book, a private analytics firm that tracks the country’s economy. ‘But there is no real risk of wider contagion because China is fundamentally a non-commercial financial system.'”

This Post Has 142 Comments
  1. ‘it made sense to move on from ‘Boise Boys.’ After all, how many house-flipping bargains remain in Idaho’s capital city?’

    It’s probably been a year and a half, maybe two, since I posted an article showing these clowns were just flat out lying about one flip for a massive profit when it actually hadn’t sold at all.

    1. how many house-flipping bargains remain
      I don’t know a large number of 25-30 year olds but I swear everyone of them I know, with a lone exception, is either an Airbnb owner, a house flipper or dating a person who is a house flipper. Now in defense of these house flippers: They do have day jobs! But still !
      Anyway, the adults all seem to think this is a great way to make money or they like me, say nothing. Now I will admit that these people seem to be hard working and trying to make some thing of themselves. But just one more example of the housing fever.

      1. Everybody’s a rent-seeker. Doesn’t matter if it’s sticks and bricks, RVs, cars, boats or otherwise. What a clusterf*ck of greed and stupidity.

      2. When a lot of people are making money at something depending on the greater fool it’s called musical chairs.

    2. For roughly 3/4 of the houses in Boise, ID, if you paid $100,000 for them you would be overpaying. These are basic single-level ranch houses built in the ’50s through the ’70s, or cracker box tract houses built in the ’80s and ’90s on the edge of town. I don’t think you could find a more ridiculous city for a housing bubble than Boise.

      1. Idaho is a low income, mostly ugly sh!thole (except the mountain areas) with poor weather 3/4 of the year. What is the appeal?

        1. There is some tech in Boise (HP, Micron, etc.), but it has been declining. HP’s Boise site used to be the main hub of LaserJet design and manufacturing, but now there are rumors that HP might close its Boise site, as the work has been steadily offshored over the years.

          1. HP in Boise is a shell of what it once was. Growing up here, many parents of classmates worked at HP Boise. Now there’s basically just a skeleton crew left and the state of Idaho now owns their corporate campus. And Micron has become a slave plantation from what I have heard. It really changed after Steve Appleton died and Sanjay Mehrotra took over. Expecting any loyalty from a corporation is silly, but that won’t stop the local politicians from bending over backwards to offer tax incentives and other a** kissing moves.

  2. Business News
    September 21, 2021 12:45 AM
    Updated 5 hours ago
    Evergrande woes hit Japan’s toilet, air-conditioner and paint manufacturers
    By Hideyuki Sano

    TOKYO (Reuters) – Concern that China Evergrande may default here on its mountain of debt hit shares of toilet maker Toto and other Japanese firms that are seen vulnerable to a further slowdown in China’s property development.

    Toto lost 6.1 % on Tuesday, extending its fall since Thursday to 14.8%, on the perceived risk of exposure to Evergrande, which investors fear could miss debt payment later this week.

    “There are rising and widely reported concerns about fund flows at leading local developer China Evergrande Group, whose business scale suggests to us it is very likely one of TOTO’s major customers,” said Arisa Katsuyama, analyst at Morgan Stanley.

    1. hit shares of toilet maker Toto and other Japanese firms that are seen vulnerable to a further slowdown in China’s property development.

      Were they even installing toilets in those never to be inhabited airboxes?

    2. They have already defaulted per the HBB linked articles on subcontractors not being paid, no liquidity and hordes of unfinished buildings.

  3. ‘Agents across the region have been seeing this trend for two months’

    That’s strange, they weren’t saying anything about it two months ago.

    ‘Three months ago…’

    Now it’s 3 months Harma?

    ‘…(home shoppers) would buy no matter what. No matter the condition, no matter the price’

    The winnahs!

    1. That jumped out to me, too. Peak buyers have got to be feeling great right about now.

      Peak buyers 3 months ago: At least we got a house before prices increased more!

      Peak buyers now: Maybe we overpaid a bit, but we got a great interest rate!

      Peak buyers 3 months from now: Maybe we should have waited

      Peak buyers in a year: What would happen if we just stopped paying?

  4. Economy | Financial Markets
    Bloomberg
    Evergrande tumult ensnares stocks with very little link to China
    – The chain reaction may say more about the extreme altitude of global risk assets than it does about economic contagion.
    – The unrest sparked by Evergrande Group – in financial markets and among investors, vendors and among employees protesting on the streets outside its offices – has made many wary of what’s to come
    [File: David Kirton/Reuters]
    By Vildana Hajric and Katie Greifeld
    Bloomberg
    20 Sep 2021

    A Chinese property owner implodes, and in short order the shares of American social media and auction companies are tumbling. The chain reaction may say more about the extreme altitude of global risk assets than it does about economic contagion.

    While it doesn’t require excessive sleuthing to understand why commodity and banks are quaking in the vortex surrounding Evergrande, the link between the lender’s travails and a stock like Twitter Inc. or EBay Inc. are harder to see.

    “You’ve got a whole basket of things to be concerned about — throw this headline into the mix and that throws everything askew. So there’s going to be irrational de-risking taking place that doesn’t connect logically,” said Art Hogan, chief strategist at National Securities, of the Evergrande crisis. “Does it make sense for technology stocks to be selling? No, but in a risk-off scenario, everything tends to be for sale — even cryptocurrencies.”

    1. It appears that an unintended consequence of Unlimited Quantitative Easing has been to greatly increase the level of systemic risk in risk asset ownership worldwide.

      1. China might be bumping into the limits of debt it wants to test. Maybe. If you google “china debt to gdp ratio”, it looks like it’s around 300 percent. Japan looks to be in the mid-high 200s.

        This article (possibly paywalled) says maximum sustainable national debt is 260 to 300 percent of GDP: https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2021/06/03/what-are-the-limits-to-government-borrowing

        Raghuram Rajan asks “How much debt is too much?” in this article, and in the context of MMT: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/borrowing-and-spending-limits-in-ultra-low-interest-rate-environment-by-raghuram-rajan-2020-11

        If China is trying to lower its debt because it’s lost its nerve, times might get interesting.

  5. HBBers, let’s all please observe a moment of silence for the billions of dear departed Yellen Bux called home to debauched fiat currency heaven during the most recent panic-selling of insanely overvalued REIC assets.

    Chinese Property Tycoon Loses $1 Billion In Panic Over Real Estate Slump

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/chinese-property-tycoon-zhang-yuanlin-loses-1-billion-in-panic-over-real-estate-slump-2547691

    Hong Kong: The boss of a Shanghai-based property developer lost more than a billion dollars Monday, as fears over the potential collapse of Chinese real estate giant Evergrande sent panic across Hong Kong trading floors.

    Zhang Yuanlin, chairman of Sinic Holdings Group, saw his net worth drop from $1.3 billion Monday morning to $250.7 million by the afternoon, according to Forbes, when his firm was forced to halt trading in Hong Kong following an 87 percent slump in its share price.

  6. “‘A lot of buyers actually are still sitting on the sidelines, because they were traumatized by what they were reading about and maybe even experiencing in the spring,’ said Lilly Rockwell, a Realtor with Compass.

    No, Lilly. The stupid money has already bought into the housing bubble. The more responsible and prudent are patiently waiting, hyena-like, for the carnage to play out once the Bubbleonians realize the bottom is about to drop out of Housing Bubble 2.0. We patient renters have all the time in the world. For the FBs, this is as good as it gets, and it’s all downhill from here. See you at the foreclosure auction.

  7. “When Lehman Brothers, a major holder of subprime mortgage debt, filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, 2008, the global financial system froze and stock markets plunged.”

    It’s pretty interesting how the Lehman Brothers comparison keeps coming up again and again, along with denial that the Evergrande implosion be as Lehman’s. It’s as though the MSM can’t resist whistling during their stroll past the graveyard of failed companies.

    “‘Evergrande has the potential to be the largest corporate debt default ever, with spillovers to other financial institutions, Evergrande’s suppliers, homeowners, wealth product holders, other property companies, and onward and outward,’ warned Alan Ruskin, a macro strategist at Deutsche Bank, in a note Monday.”

    Sounds like it’s bailouts or bust ahead.

    1. Business and Economy
      Bloomberg
      China pumps $14bn in cash into market amid Evergrande crisis
      – The move comes as the trouble facing China’s Evergrande Group fuels investor concern over the health of real estate and credit markets.
      – Disquiet over the fate of China’s Evergrande Group comes at a time when China’s economy is already slowing
      [File: Chan Long Hei/Bloomberg]
      By Tian Chen and Tania ChenBloomberg
      17 Sep 2021

      China injected more cash into its banking system in a sign authorities are seeking to avert a funding squeeze amid a seasonal rise in financing demand and the intensifying debt crisis at China Evergrande.

      The People’s Bank of China added 90 billion yuan ($14 billion) of funds on a net basis through seven-day and 14-day reverse repurchase agreements on Friday, the most since February. Today was the first time this month it added more than 10 billion yuan short-term liquidity into the banking system on a single day.

      The move comes as the trouble facing China Evergrande Group fuels investor concern over the health of real estate and credit markets. Adding to the stress is a seasonal spike in demand for cash as banks are hesitant to lend toward the end of the quarter ahead of regulatory checks. Liquidity also tends to diminish at this time of year ahead of a one-week holiday at the start of October.

      “Avoiding a systemic liquidity squeeze is the absolute priority for the PBOC and it has means to do so,” Societe Generale SA economists led by Wei Yao wrote in a research note. “A Lehman-style financial-market meltdown is not our top concern, but an extended and severe economic slowdown seems more probable.”

      1. What good is it to pour $14 billion into a $300 billion debt crater? Seems rather like pouring sand down a rat hole.

      2. China injected more cash into its banking system

        How do you say “Plunge Protection Team” in Mandarin?

      3. Danielle DiMartino Booth talked about Evergrande yesterday. She said that the Chinese are not as financially globally connected as, say, the US and Europe.

        The way I interpret it is to think of the global finance system as a network of interconnected chains of dominoes. The China domino chain is somewhat removed (physical distance) from the global chain. So, even if some parts of the China chain fall, it’s too far from the other dominoes to set off a massive chain reaction. At most, the Evergrande bust will take down a few connected chains, like Japanese toilets. But the rest of the global system can recover. We can see that already in the markets. The DOW was down a little at opening, but is now modestly up.

        “China pumps $14bn in cash into market amid Evergrande crisis”

        This sounds very similar to Bernanke pumping cash into Alt-A during the mini-freeze in summer 2007, not like the Lehman crash. The Alt-A mini-freeze was the one-year warning before Leman crashed. So perhaps Evergrande will be the one-year warning before the next crash.

        Market bears have been predicting a crash “6-12 months from now” for a while, but few are offering any solid signals to look for. Analyst M. Pento *is* offering a signal: he believes that the crash will be precipitated in Q2 2022, when the last of the gimme-stimmies* run out. After that it will depend on whether Jay and Janet can push things off until after the midterm elections.

        —————-
        *There are still some lingering gimme-stimmies. The only Federal cheese left is the Child Tax Credit. However, some states (I think) are still offering some unemployment, and some Blue states have extended eviction moratoriums. But I think even the State bennies will be gone by Christmas.

        1. the interesting thing with the rental stimulus and a few others is that no one is getting them. Calfornia is having a hard time getting the money into renters hands.

          1. “Calfornia is having a hard time getting the money into renters hands.”

            Its deliberate. It’s going into someone elses wallet.

        2. “So, even if some parts of the China chain fall, it’s too far from the other dominoes to set off a massive chain reaction.”

          I will be shocked if it doesn’t turn out that Wall Street gunslingers are buried to the neck in Evergrande debt.

  8. I am starting to see fewer bidding wars, fewer buyers where there are bidding wars, and a few extra days on the market,’ Hoffman said. ‘Just a little less excitement than the summer and spring that just passed.’”

    I’m seeing Hoffman and his fellow REIC dissemblers secretly retreating to their medicine cabinets and gobbling Xanax by the handful as they contemplate the career implications of the housing bust they all know is upon them.

  9. Twofer Tuesday articles about how AirBnB and the CCP Flu destroyed the economies of every ski town in Colorado:

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/crested-buttes-housing-affordability-crisis-is-turning-into-an-employment-crisis

    https://coloradosun.com/2021/09/21/colorado-resorts-breckenridge-short-term-rentals/

    Greedheads gonna greed. These are great examples of how “vote like California, become California” has played out in Colorado.

    You either live in a $900,000 starter home, or you’re homeless. It’s the progressive way.

  10. Stay classy, Democrat-Bolshevik apparatchiks.

    Keith Wright allegedly fled after opening door into cyclist

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/20/keith-wright-allegedly-fled-after-opening-door-into-nyc-cyclist/

    The boss of the Manhattan Democratic Party was busted for opening his car door into the path of cyclist — sending the man flying — before allegedly fleeing, The Post has learned.

    Keith Wright, 66, chair of the New York County Democratic Committee, was on Fifth Avenue near West 139th Street when he flung open the driver’s door of his black BMW at 9:19 p.m. Aug. 26, causing the rider to smash into the door, according to a criminal complaint.

    1. They unsuccessfully attempted to oust him. Probably a dominion issue. His judge brother was demoted. A real infamous family I see.

  11. When Vibrants for Biden conduct their “redistribution of the wealth” organized thefts in Democrat-Bolshevik malgoverned cities, is it safe to assume the local Party apparatchiks are getting a cut?

    Crooks swipe $385K in designer handbags, clothing from Soho boutique

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/nyc-crooks-swipe-385k-in-designer-handbags-clothing-from-soho-boutique/

    A trio of crooks stole $385,000 in designer handbags and clothing from a Soho boutique in a brazen overnight heist earlier this month, police said.

    The still-at-large suspects ripped off What Goes Around Comes Around on Wooster Street near Spring Street in the early morning hours of Sept. 6, according to the NYPD.

    1. What a great way to support myself if fired for refusing the vaccine. Upside is if I do it in NY or California and go to prison I can finally afford that sex change operation!

    1. I wouldn’t touch the DOW or other market. Too manipulated. It looks like it is rolling over. And despite the massive fed pump, it closed in the red again today. The black swan may have arrived. Listened to Mannarino yesterday but he ignored his own classic warnings — a sell off on Friday followed by a sell off on Monday is a bad sign. Now Tuesday the pump ended a dump.
      QE to the moon with the budget wall in Oct. Hyperinflation May drive it higher but risk is on.

  12. ZH headline just now: Evergrande Misses Debt Payments Due Monday As World’s Richest Banker Says China’s “Lehman Moment” Has Arrived

    I sense a disturbance in the force, as if millions of real estate speculators cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

  13. China: What is Evergrande and is it too big to fail?
    Published 8 hours ago
    A man and children cycle past the Guangzhou FC football stadium, which is being built by Evergrande.
    Getty Images

    Global stock markets have been on high alert as crisis-hit Chinese giant Evergrande faces a key test this week.

    The world’s most indebted real estate developer is due to make interest payments of $84m (£61m) on its bonds this Thursday.

    Earlier in the week, the company started to repay investors in its wealth management business with property as it struggled to find cash to meet its liabilities.

    Is Evergrande ‘too big to fail’?

    The very serious potential fallout of such a heavily-indebted company collapsing has led some analysts to suggest that Beijing may step in to rescue it.

    The EIU’s Mattie Bekink thinks so: “Rather than risk disrupting supply chains and enraging homeowners, we think the government will probably find a way to ensure Evergrande’s core business survives.”

    Others though are not sure.

    In a post on China’s chat app and social media platform WeChat, the influential editor-in-chief of state-backed Global Times newspaper Hu Xijin said Evergrande should not rely on a government bailout and instead needs to save itself.

    This also chimes with Beijing’s aim to rein in corporate debt, which means that such a high profile bailout could be seen as setting a bad example.

    Reporting by Peter Hoskins and Katie Silver

  14. Opinion
    Why China’s property mess is Australia’s problem
    Elizabeth Knight
    Business columnist
    September 21, 2021 — 3.52pm

    It may feel like the impending collapse of China’s largest property developer, Evergrande, and the fortunes of the Australian economy and our sharemarket are distant or circuitous. The reality is they are neither.

    The link is the price of our largest and most lucrative commodity export – iron ore – and the effect is more a wave than a ripple.

    The Chinese government is attempting to hose down the massive bubble in its property market. And its resolve to clamp down on the excessive debt associated with property speculation is sufficiently iron clad that it will allow Evergrande to collapse. It is clearly prepared to suffer the domino effect it will trigger on other highly indebted Chinese real estate companies.
    Construction of unfinished properties with enough floor space to cover three-fourths of Manhattan is at risk.

    Given building construction takes about one-third of the steel produced in China from iron ore mainly supplied by Australia, the nexus between dampening the Chinese property market and the escalation in the fall in the iron ore price over the past month is clear enough.

    Six months ago, the iron ore price was trading at a gravity-defying level of around $US235. Having found its Newton moment, it is now $US93 and falling.

    And every $US10 fall in the price equates to a hit in nominal GDP of $6.5 billion for the Australian economy and a $1.3 billion fall in tax receipts, according to sensitivity analysis contained in the federal budget.

    Meanwhile, investors in Australia’s three major iron ore producers, Fortescue, Rio Tinto and BHP have seen billions of dollars in value evaporate over the past five days as their share prices have tumbled between 6.5 per cent and 18 per cent – even after a reprieve on Tuesday which saw their prices inch up marginally.

      1. “when you think about it $93 a ton is less then 5 cents a pound and they still make a profit.”

        The same with crude oil and refined product. Loads of profit even at a perceived “low” price.

    1. A government shill complaining about tax receipts. What happened to the windfall tax receipts when iron ore launched to a gravity defying $325? Only reporting the “loses” from a momentary hyperinflationary unreal high.

  15. Seldom reported fact: The market value of Evergrande has cratered by over ninety percent since last year ($41 billion down to $3.7 billion).

    CR8R

    1. The Financial Times
      Evergrande Real Estate Group
      Evergrande used retail financial investments to plug funding gaps
      – Executive at crisis-hit Chinese property developer warns staff ‘might be arrested’ if investors are not repaid
      – A housing complex by Chinese property developer Evergrande in Huaian in China’s eastern Jiangsu province
      – Evergrande, China’s most indebted developer, sold its investment products to employees and buyers of its apartments
      © AFP via Getty Images
      Sun Yu in Shenzhen, Ryan McMorrow and Sherry Fei Ju in Beijing 33 minutes ago

      Crisis-hit Chinese property developer Evergrande used billions of dollars raised by selling wealth management products to retail investors to plug funding gaps and even to pay back other wealth management investors, according to executives of the company in Shenzhen.

      Evergrande financial advisers marketed the products widely, including to homeowners in its apartment blocks, while its managers persuaded subordinates to invest, said the executives of Evergrande’s wealth management division.

      One executive suggested the products were too high risk for ordinary retail investors and should not have been offered to them. The executives were speaking during a meeting, witnessed by the Financial Times, with angry investors who went to the company’s Shenzhen headquarters to try to get their money back.

      Safe and stable returns “backed by Evergrande” were at the heart of the sales pitch. Company executives said 80,000 investors own Rmb40bn ($6.2bn) in outstanding Evergrande wealth management products.

      The Hong Kong-listed group is one of the biggest real estate developers in China and the most indebted in the world. It was worth as much as HK$320bn (US$41bn) last year but its market value has plunged to $3.7bn as it verges on defaulting on its offshore bonds and creditors scramble for repayment.

      The company’s problems spooked global markets on Monday, with Hong Kong’s Hang Seng index closing at its lowest level since last October and Wall Street recording its worst one-day loss in four months. Evergrande’s shares fell as much as 7 per cent on Tuesday, bringing its losses for the year to about 85 per cent.

    2. I think Evergrande (and they must not be the only one) will finally do it.

      This makes it a +2 for China this decade. The orange man with the mean mouth kinda warned us.

    1. ben and jerrys
      I have no clue how any normal person could think this makes sense.
      But I guess if you are Ben or Jerry or an upper level exec you get SJW points and you don’t actually need the police because you have private security. (just like Rep Cori Bush does.) Plus you might rake in a few more bucks from the SJW crowd.

    2. The actual ice cream appears to be a base of coffee-flavored ice cream with fudge brownies and marshmallows mixed in. Seems rather incongruous, since cops are famous for drinking lots of coffee. Wouldn’t a true anti-cop ice cream would taste like broccoli and chicken breast?

    3. It is so convenient these woke and other certain person owned companies are revealing themselves. It makes it easier to know what to avoid.

    4. I bet it’s not nearly as tasty as the savory Crow & CraterTater Casserole served up daily by Chef Jones everyday.

    5. Haven’t eaten B&J’s for well over a year after I found out they went woke. Haagen Dazs is out, too. What’s nice is I found there are innumerable, BETTER choices in the ice cream aisle, for a much better price as well.

          1. I don’t do the shopping but if it’s anything like Lunardi’s strawberry ice cream I’m on board!

      1. I found a nice old family-run ice cream store out in the country but just off an interstate exit. A true half gallon of ice cream with flavors not available anywhere nearby, for $7.50. The ride out & back is like taking a short vacation.

    1. Gotta love how hospitals were forbidding Ivermectin, and threatening to fire any staff that disobeyed that directive. And since this was a gooberment hospital, that means the staff would likely lose their pensions.

      I know more than a few people who are stockpiling Ivermectin, both human grade and in some cases Mr. Ed Paste (apple flavored!), as human grade Ivermectin is not cheap.

      1. Human grade Ivermectin is very cheap. It’s just not available OTC.

        If/when the Ivermectin suppression gets out, I think a lot of Second- and Third-World countries are going to be out for blood, starting with Tedros. The poor could have lived on Ive while they waited for leftover vaccines. And those living in that police state Down Under are going to throw a real fit. But what can we do? And I mean specific actions, not bullsh!!t slogans like “wake up” and “rise up.” We’re already protesting and voting is no good anymore.

        1. We’re already protesting and voting is no good anymore.

          we’ve only begun to protest. it’s going to get a lot more intense and cops are going to start hiding in their police stations.

          in australia, it looks like tptb have hired thugs to pretend they’re cops, because they don’t have enough cops to handle the streets anymore. in a little while they’re going to have to give the thugs a big raise to be able to keep them.

          we have to win in the streets now.

        2. Human grade Ivermectin is very cheap. It’s just not available OTC.

          $4 a pill is not cheap. It might be cheap to manufacture, but not to buy. And it’s hard to find a doctor who will prescribe it. I suppose that compared to monoclonal antibodies it’s cheap, but compared to Mr. Ed Paste it’s very expensive.

          I think this is being done so that later they can say “Hey, we never banned it (though we made it very hard to get)”

          1. I suppose that compared to monoclonal antibodies it’s cheap, but compared to Mr. Ed Paste it’s very expensive.

            and on amazon, mr. ed paste has double recently. buy the injectable form. it’s the purest and has the longest shelf life. plus, you can still find it online if you look for it. i suspect its price will start soaring too, in a little while.

        1. This cannot be repeated enough: it is not a vaccine. It is experimental gene therapy. And yes, I would prefer one of the safest drugs ever invented to experimental gene therapy.

          1. Not to mention that India used the “horse parasite medicine” to stop Delta in its tracks. India isn’t even 20% vaxxed, yet their infection rate dropped quickly once they started using Ivermectin.

          2. IMHO,
            I’m super impressed with ivermectin based on all the research I have done on it. They have other drugs also, but ivermectin might be the superstar.

            Makes you wonder if the virus is actually a parasite since a parasite medication works so well on the alleged virus theory. Just wondering.
            But , Hospitals are dangerous places now to get treatment because of Big Pharmacy dictating the protocols or standard of care for Covid. Again a example of the power of the Monopoly , like Big Pharmacy , to kill rather than heal.
            And nobody thinks it isn’t alarming that pharmaceutical deaths are listed as the third cause of death in US . But just looking at how the FDA is not being protective on the vaccines, that are a horrific failure, these agencies are compromised and a big joke now.
            The Medical Industry of front line Drs and nurses , who are under the extortion of losing their job if they don’t do what these corrupted killers want , have to reject and object and just refuse to go along with this slaughter.
            Its very powerful to be under threat of job loss , and now the same extortion by Biden with Company mandates or lose your job.
            This little push back from the FDA on Boosters being limited to the 65+ is no consolation when they have double downed on going after all ages on the two shot unsafe vaccine , while they cover up that the vaccines aren’t safe or effective.

            There is to much evidence World wide that they have effective drugs to treat Covid early that should bring to a halt the EUA on these unsafe expiermental vaccines.
            Congress has gotten tons of testimony , as well as the FDA , and nothing is done in this time is of the essence life and death matter.
            So, the people have to rebel, and Drs and nurses have to rebel . They don’t care if a bunch of people wrongfully get fired or if they are blackmailed to take the jab to save their job. Gangsters using nothing but mafia methods to destroy and murder.

            Seriously , they have to be stopped and the people have to do it because Government and FDA isn’t going to do it.
            It was a rigged national election to place puppets in to bring on this criminal insurrection of US by One World Order Monopolies, using a Medical fraud for mass control, destruction, and mass murder. They aren’t using bombs and typical warfare, but their methods are still destruction of the enemy , the enemy being US Citizens.

          3. I will take it further. Based on the studied science of exceptionally accomplished doctors with multiple degrees, the spike protein alone, triggers the onset of health problems exactly as Covid would.
            I say it’s a lethal death shot.

        2. Bear, you’re trying to fool us into choosing between only two options. But there aren’t only two options. In this situation, there are at least five options, some riskier than others. Here they are, presented for further discussion:

          Options:
          1. Take the vaccine as a preventative.
          2. Take the human Rx Ivermectin weekly as a preventative (India).
          3. Take the horse paste weekly as a preventative.
          4. Wait until you get COVID, and then take human Rx Ivermectin as a short-term course (India).
          5. Wait until you get COVID, and then take horse paste as a short term course.

          Risks:
          1. This has some risk, which we all know about.
          2. This has some risk. Iver is usually taken as a short-term course, like antibiotics. I don’t know the effects of taking Iver weekly long-term.
          3. This is the riskiest of all. In addition to long-term risks, there’s a chance of overdosing with every dose, every week.
          4. This appears to be a safer route — and the route most suppressed by “health officials.”
          5. There’s risk of overdose here. I have horse paste but I wouldn’t take it unless I absolutely had to.

          1. how much IVM is considered an overdose in a 220 lb man? how likely is that dose to cause death?

            IVM is a very forgiving medication and i think you’re exaggerating its dangers.

          2. Ivermectin is one of the safest medications on the planet. You have to assume that the medical community of Doctors know how to percribed it to combat a case of Covid , as well as how to use it as a prophylactic. Obviously body weight is always a factor in correct dose.

            Interesting, I heard a Dr talking about ivermectin being used to treat long haul Covid , with success.

            To the contrary, with the vaccines its a one size fits all doze.

            And why even say that horse paste is a option unless the person knew how to convert the horse dose to the human doze. The fact that fake news has associated ivermectin with being a horse de-wormer when its been around for years as a FDA approved drug for humans , is just the type of misinformation spin to suppress drugs that work.

            And the Dr Fauci EUA approved drug for Covid called remdesivir is killing people in droves because it shuts down the kidneys.

            And if you actually want to stop the creation of mutations that vaccines are causing, that could threaten the human race if they ever got increasingly deadly, than the medication approach to wiping out Covid is the superior solution along with natural immunity.

            The expiermental new technology vaccines aren’t a choice anymore because the expierment is a failure as to safety and effective.

          3. IVM is a very forgiving medication and i think you’re exaggerating its dangers.

            Like the false stories about hospitals getting slammed with IVM overdoses. Notice that the MSM outlets never issued a retraction.

          4. is just the type of misinformation spin to suppress drugs that work

            It sure seems like if you get sick, they want you to die. I guess they need the bodies for the daily stats.

          5. ELF,
            I agree with you that this manufactured spike protein is just horrific . I’m just hoping the effect of it wanes with time.
            Some Drs are actually using ivermectin to treat vaccine injury because ivermectin attacks the manufactured spike protein apparently also.

          6. Not trying to fool anyone…just trying to understand the range of perspectives discussed here. I claim no expertise in vaccines, gene therapy, etc.

          7. Apparently “the jab” traces its roots back to La Jolla!

            NEWS FEATURE
            14 September 2021
            The tangled history of mRNA vaccines
            Hundreds of scientists had worked on mRNA vaccines for decades before the coronavirus pandemic brought a breakthrough.
            Elie Dolgin
            Illustration that shows the mRNA code used in the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine, with a syringe containing a lipid nanoparticle.

            In late 1987, Robert Malone performed a landmark experiment. He mixed strands of messenger RNA with droplets of fat, to create a kind of molecular stew. Human cells bathed in this genetic gumbo absorbed the mRNA, and began producing proteins from it1.

            Realizing that this discovery might have far-reaching potential in medicine, Malone, a graduate student at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, later jotted down some notes, which he signed and dated. If cells could create proteins from mRNA delivered into them, he wrote on 11 January 1988, it might be possible to “treat RNA as a drug”. Another member of the Salk lab signed the notes, too, for posterity. Later that year, Malone’s experiments showed that frog embryos absorbed such mRNA2. It was the first time anyone had used fatty droplets to ease mRNA’s passage into a living organism.

            Those experiments were a stepping stone towards two of the most important and profitable vaccines in history: the mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines given to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Global sales of these are expected to top US$50 billion in 2021 alone.

          8. unless the person knew how to convert the horse dose to the human doze.

            The horse paste comes in a preloaded syringe with horse weights printed on it. In pounds.

          9. “You have to assume that the medical community of Doctors know how to … use it as a prophylactic.”

            Why do I have to assume that? Are they ANY studies on long-term use at all?

        1. Not to diminish the risk this nurse is taking. I appauld her courage. I have no doubt she’ll lose her job.

      1. Oxide.
        The Doctors have published protocols for the various uses. A whole world of real practice of medicine has been taking place, while the fake news world of the narrative has been taking place.

  16. **”A lot of buyers actually are still sitting on the sidelines, because they were traumatized by what they were reading about and maybe even experiencing in the spring,’ said Lilly Rockwell, a Realtor with Compass. ‘There’s still a lot of buyers who are hesitant to dip their toe back into the market.’”

    when desperate, it’s always suggested that money brokers chide & insult the potential customers (buyers) into action.

    that Bronco/Telluride payment won’t make itself.

    here comes 2008 again complete w/whiny agents. lehman like financial shenanigans. another matrix sequel. haha

    (the phrase “ buyers won’t pull the trigger” MIGHT be a bit passé this time around)

    1. It takes a lot of people to make that kind of noise. First school in the clip is Penn state😁. The shame about PA is there’s a city on each end of the state that leads the destruction of PA. The rest of the state is solidly red. Kinda like NY.

      The people are primed to send the pederast paperweight president packing.

  17. From the Sun article on Shaquille O’Neil’s estate:

    “But the agency selling his home have come up with a new strategy. … Shaq’s logo and label has been removed from as much of the home as possible having previously been printed through the house. … According to ESPN, a Shaq logo now only appears in the gym.”

    🤔🤔🤔
    💡💡💡💡💡💡
    😮 😮

    What a revelation!!!1!1! No one would EVER have guessed that someone who’s NOT Shaq doesn’t want to wake up each morning to walls plastered with Shaq?!? O Realtor, truly you have a dizzying intellect. I guess that’s why you make the big bucks.

    1. Shaq’s house won’t s ss sellll!?
      Wwhhaaa !??

      all of the rookie used-house salespersons, who have never known a down market, are running around in panic screaming:
      “what do I do? what DO. I. DOO?”
      so the veterans tell them you actually have to put a sandwich sign out.
      a “what” sign?
      what’s that !?
      veterans add further:
      “if that doesn’t work, put BALLOONS on it. that’s a sure-fire winner!
      that shows you’re SERIOUS.
      just like the car dealers.”

  18. San Diego home prices just dropped for a second straight month, right in the middle of the red hot summer sales season. But experts have offered their assurances that there will be no crash or slowdown anytime soon…just like they did back in 2007!

    1. A rather tiny scale example of what happens to Teslas when they decide to self-combust…. and melt craters through the asphalt taking the occupants with it.

  19. charles hugh smith-Weblog and Essays
    https://oftwominds.cloudhostedresources.com/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oftwominds.com%2Fblog.html&width=1024

    Now That the American Dream Is Reserved for the Wealthy, The Smart Crowd Is Opting Out
    September 20, 2021

    The already-wealthy and their minions are unprepared for the Smart Crowd opting out.

    Clueless economists are wringing their hands about the labor shortage without looking at the underlying causes, one of which is painfully obvious: the American economy now only works for the top 10%; the American Dream of turning labor into capital is now reserved for the already-wealthy.
    As a result the Smart Crowd is opting out of the conventional workforce’s debt-overwork-deadend-treadmill. What clueless economists, pundits and politicos don’t dare acknowledge is that credentials and hard work are not a ticket to middle-class security; they’re a ticket to impossible workloads demanded by global corporations and high-cost lifestyles anchored by student-loan debt, high rents and out-of-reach real estate.
    In other words, credentials and hard work are a deadend. Costs rise faster than your income no matter how hard you work, and corporations are ruthlessly extractive despite the bogus PR of “we value our employees”: just as government only values its tax-donkeys after they’re gone, corporations only value their employees after they burn out and leave the Corporate America treadmill for good.
    Credentials and hard work are a deadend financially and health-wise. The stress of overwork breaks down physical and mental health, slowly and then all at once. Financially, the endless inflation of asset bubbles means younger workers must buy assets at the top of the bubble and hope the bubbles won’t pop–but since bubbles always pop, the game of enticing younger workers into buying overvalued stocks, junk bonds and houses is a deadend: rather than building real wealth, gambling in bubbles is ultimately destructive to both wealth and health, because once the phantom wealth generated by a bubble dissipates, those who believed it was all forever are devastated.
    The hope that there will be a safe haven when bubbles pop is another aspect of this time it’s different , and this belief has led many to drop out of the workforce to speculate their way to wealth. Given this is the greatest bubble of all time (GBOAT), this strategy has been gloriously successful, as the rising tide has raised all boats across virtually every asset class.
    But few of the newly minted millionaires have any experience of bubbles popping, and so few are prepared for the end-game. Since bubbles often exhibit symmetry, the skyrocket ascent will likely be matched by a catastrophically steep decline that leaves this time it’s different believers in disbelief.
    Things are different for the top tier of the already-wealthy. When family money pays for college and the down payment on a house, the lucky offspring have no student-loan debt chains hobbling them and none of the hopeless Red Queen’s Race of trying to save up a down payment as housing prices accelerate away from the hapless savers.
    Family money offers other cost-free goodies to the fortunate offspring: use of the family vacation home, income from family trust-fund assets, the benefits of family connections (for example, the advantages given to alumni of prestigious schools in terms of admitting their offspring) and valuable class-based memberships, both formal and informal.
    Trying to reach the same level as the already-wealthy is a path to burnout and frustration, as the chasm is too wide to leap. Those gambling in the GBOAT casino are winning now, but relying on number 22 coming up again and again is becoming increasingly risky. The speed with which the phantom wealth of debt-asset bubbles can collapse is not widely understood, and the collapse will catch most punters off-guard.
    In other words, membership in the already-wealthy based on speculative gains may prove more temporary than expected.
    There are many ways to opt out. Here’s one account of one strategy: What I learned from living five years in a van (theguardian.com).
    The already-wealthy and their minions are unprepared for the Smart Crowd opting out. In their precious naivete, the technocrat class reckons a few more dollars an hour will lure the Smart Crowd back into wage-debt-penury. The failure of their pathetic little carrot to entice the burned out donkeys back to the harness of making billionaires wealthier in exchange for, well, nothing of any real value , will be a great shock for those who believe that since the status quo works great for me, it works great for everybody .
    The banquet of consequences hasn’t even served the main course but it’s on the way from the kitchen.

      1. Of all THE H1Bs you’ve worked with, how many would you consider competent enough to keep a mega corp running effectively?

        And how many of the REALLY talented ones want to immigrate into this s-show now?

  20. County Clerk Submits Report That Colorado Secretary of State And Dominion ‘Destroyed’ Election Data

    Caught Red-Handed

    by PATRICK HOWLEY
    September 21, 2021

    Mesa County, Colorado Clerk and Recorder Tina M. Peters has submitted a forensic examination report to the Mesa County commissioners. The report shows that a massive amount of election data was deleted and “destroyed” by the office of the Democrat Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold and Dominion Voting Systems, which performed a supposed system upgrade on the voting equipment in May. Luckily, Peters had the data backed up before it was destroyed, hopefully keeping alive the prospect of performing a full forensic audit of the 2020 election. (READ THE REPORT HERE)

    The report states (page 1): “Federal law requires the preservation of election records — which includes records in electronic or digital form — for twenty-two months after an election. Colorado law requires the preservation of election records for an additional three months beyond the Federal requirement…Forensic examination found that election records, including data described in the Federal Election Commission’s 2002 Voting System Standards (VSS) mandated by Colorado law as certification requirements for Colorado voting systems, have been destroyed on Mesa County’s voting system, by the system vendor and the Colorado Secretary of State’s office. Because similar system modifications were reportedly performed upon county election servers across the state, it is possible, if not likely, that such data destruction in violation of state and federal law has occurred in numerous other counties. The extent and manner of the destruction of the data comprising these election records is consequential, precluding the possibility of any comprehensive forensic audit of the conduct of any involved election.”

    The report also documents the “DELETED “.LOG” FILES AFTER DOMINION TRUSTED BUILD UPDATE.”

    https://nationalfile.com/county-clerk-submits-report-that-colorado-secretary-of-state-and-dominion-destroyed-election-data/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=county-clerk-submits-report-that-colorado-secretary-of-state-and-dominion-destroyed-election-data

    1. This was a massive, comprehensive effort by globalist billionaires to deny the will of the American people and install their own puppet. The death penalty is the only recourse at this point.

    1. RR,
      And the powers that be will say something like …

      ” Oh that’s very interesting, and no doubt this deserves additional study .”

      And in the meantime people are being killed and injured and slaughtered. Time is of the essence because the Biden Administration has mandated these junk vaccines, with the agenda to get something vile in every arm.

      I’m sick of a President of the United States being a Dictorship for the Innsurrection by psychopaths .

  21. You’re obsolete, realtors. A business model based on your marks paying you a 6% commission for a “service” that requires a few mouse-clicks in the internet age while you try to con them into paying the highest possible price is long overdue for a complete rethink. Get a real job, parasites.

    Real-Estate Agents Gear Up for Fight to Save Their Commissions

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/realtors-face-federal-scrutiny-of-broker-commissions-11632135601

  22. September 21, 20213:33 PM PDT
    Last Updated an hour ago
    Business
    IMF says China has tools to avoid Evergrande’s problems becoming systemic crisis
    Reuters
    1 minute read
    A man walks in front of unfinished residential buildings at the Evergrande Oasis, a housing complex developed by Evergrande Group, in Luoyang, China September 15, 2021.
    REUTERS/Carlos Garcia Rawlins

    WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (Reuters) – The International Monetary Fund on Tuesday said it is closely following developments surrounding China Evergrande Group, but believes Beijing has the tools to prevent the situation from turning into a systemic crisis.

    IMF chief economist Gita Gopinath told Reuters the real estate sector was a big part of China’s economy, and China Evergrande’s potential default could have implications for China’s economic activity and financial stability.

    “We are following the developments in China very closely,” Gopinath said, underscoring the need for regulatory reforms to address the heavily leveraged property sector. “We still believe that China has the tools and the policy space to prevent this turning into a systemic crisis.”

    1. IMF says China has tools to avoid Evergrande’s problems becoming systemic crisis

      Translation: Head for the exits as fast as you can.

  23. I watched the corruption of the Medical Industry, and it all started with the Government granting no liability to Big Pharmacy on vaccines.
    That resulted in 16 vaccine shots mandated for children at young ages. Also the big push for a vaccine for everything, even diseases that the person had a low chance of ever getting.
    So, its not surprising that they have labeled the Covid Vaccines a vaccine , when its a new technology gene altering expierment.

    To me this was criminal to used this technology for vaccines under emergency use authorization as a response to a so called global Pandemic.
    They were never able to get a pass before on this gene altering application as a vaccine, because in prior tests the animals died .
    Also, you don’t get EUA if there are valid drugs to treat the disease. So, this concerted effort to censor valid drugs for the lab rat expierment only solution vaccine. Now the cover up of the adverse reactions to this failure vaccine.

    Dr Fauci funding gain of function research with a rival foreign Country is creating disease .
    So, when Bill Gates predicts more pandemics coming , how is that possible to predict since Pandemics are natural happenstance where sometimes 100 years goes by before you get one.
    Oh, so now because they create enhanced disease, and oh oops one leaked, and now the globe has to take the vaccine solution. Medical Tyranny over this when all the evidence points to this Panademic being pre planned.
    All of a sudden a small risk virus to the greater population is turned into a global shut down , A fake vaccine in every arm mandate. Fake PCR testing to up cases, while Hospitals were bribed to lable everything Covid, while life saving drugs were suppressed so thousands died by getting no treatment.
    I have never seen something so contrived, so vile, so murderous as this contrived Pandemic and the outrageous solutions to it .
    And, they aren’t stopping it, and now they are going after young children , the no risk group. Biden mandated shots or you will lose you job. Drs and nurses under job threat and medical board harassment if they don’t conform to the narrative.

    But my main point is that government screws up everything by doing what Private Party Monopolies want , that ends up rigging the deck on everything.
    And the fact that they are rigging elections to insure that the people have no recourse to their insane agendas of a One World Order dictorship by Monopolies in collusion with China is evident.
    So how do you like the puppet Biden now, and his cackling VP , who got in by a criminally rigged election, doing everything treasonous to US Citizens.

    I think they are trying to do everything possible to provoke US Citizens into a fight so they can claim insurrection like the Jan 6 ordeal.
    They have already labeled over half the Country enemies of the State, and the unvaccinated are the new evil group to punish.

    So, it seems like push back is starting, but time is of the essence as this Innsurrection to take over the US is on a race against time to implement their criminal takeover. A shot in every arm is part of it.

  24. “hesitant to dip their toe back into the market.”
    Let me fix that.
    “hesitant to stick their head in the wood-chipper.”

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