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No One Wants To Be A Loser And Say, Oh Yeah, I Overpaid

A report from the Dallas Business Journal in Texas. “Homes in Dallas-Fort Worth are selling far more slowly and for lower prices than they were a year ago, according to Re/Max. The median home sale prices in DFW was down 4.5% in May compared to a year ago, according to the Re/Max National Housing Report. The median price of DFW homes sold in May was $402,000 compared to $427,881 in May 2022. Nationally, the median of all 51 metro area sales prices was $423,000, down 1.9% from May 2022. The markets with the biggest year-over-year decrease in median sales price were San Francisco, down 10.7%; Las Vegas, Nev., down 10%; and Phoenix, down 8.9%.”

Loop North in Illinois. “The bad news is that May was the 15th consecutive month of year-over-year home sales declines in the Gold Coast, Lakeview, Near North Side, North Center, Old Town, and Lincoln Park neighborhoods. Home prices in Lakeview have been flat during the same time period. The Gold Coast and Near North Side have had a more difficult time with pricing, according to Baird & Warner’s analysis. Prices on the Near North Side slipped 6 percent in May. The past few months have shown that many prospective buyers will compete in multiple-offer scenarios, but ‘they will not get involved in over-priced bidding wars,’ noted the Baird & Warner analysis.”

The Real Deal on New York. “After hustling to meet unprecedented demand for the past three summers, Hamptons brokers are finally taking a breather — whether they like it or not. ‘Our market really doesn’t plummet,’ said sales broker Dana Trotter, managing partner at The Agency. ‘But we are seeing price corrections, especially in the high end.’ Meanwhile, inflated asking rents and an influx of rental inventory from homeowners who can now summer abroad has put a damper on leasing. ‘Think about the personality of who rents in the Hamptons — super Type A,’ said Compass broker Cindy Scholz. ‘No one wants to be a loser and say, ‘Oh yeah, I overpaid.’”

The Stamford Advocate in Connecticut. “The  Cambridge Crossing website shows a model houses with classic white porch pillars, manicured lawns and top end landscaping, tree-lined streets and cul de sacs. But a walk through the half-finished neighborhood off Hoskins Road and near the International Skating Center is far from a dream, local residents say. There are no street or stop signs and street lights remain dark. Storm drains and sewer mains sit above grade because paving has not been completed, even in areas where building has been completed.”

“Some houses are partially sided and others have no siding as contractors have stopped work. Curbs and sidewalks are intermittent. Instead of pillars, some homes front porch covers are supported by two-by-fours. Drainage is non-existent in some areas, unfinished in others. The community was also formed as a home owner’s association, which means monthly HOA fees of $300 for scarce services on top of an initial $1,800 payment. Enough homes have been closed on to facilitate the election of a board, but that has yet to happen. Homeowners suspect that is because the developer would have to show the total amount collected for fees from more than 30 homeowners would have to be disclosed and what the money has been spent on. ‘We don’t know if that money exists,’ said one owner.”

From in Massachusetts. “Has the Earth been thrown off its rotation? Apparently. In a stunning turnaround from recent years, the story with vacation rentals on the Cape this summer is not one of scarcity. It’s no longer, if you haven’t booked a year in advance don’t expect a place with window screens. Rather, it’s a tale of vacancy. ‘It’s crickets,’ said Sarah Buckwalter, co-owner of an inherited four-bedroom, two-bath that’s on a tidal pond in North Falmouth, within walking distance of Old Silver Beach, and still has empty weeks this month.”

“Have the giddy price hikes of the past few years become too giddy? After all, the average daily rate hit $619 this year up from $525 last summer, according to the real estate group — or about what it once cost to spend an entire week on the Cape. Did the sharks and the traffic and Airbnb’s tyrannical departure instructions scare everyone away? Strip the beds, wash the towels, empty the fridge, take the recycling to some distant spot and get out by 10 a.m. — or else. Has everyone who bought a second home on the Cape during the pandemic decided, en masse, to vacation at more glamorous locales, thereby flooding the market with their fancy rentals?”

From Bisnow. “The seven-property office portfolio that PIMCO subsidiary Columbia Property Trust defaulted on earlier this year has seen its value drop by 30%. The properties, which span more than 3M SF of office space, were previously appraised at $2.34B, but a new appraisal initiated by special servicer Wells Fargo pegged the value of the buildings at $1.6B, The Real Deal reported, citing Trepp data. The new appraisal is below the $1.7B outstanding on the loan balance secured by the buildings, which sit in New York City, San Francisco, Boston and Jersey City. PIMCO, which acquired Columbia Property Trust in 2021, defaulted on the loan in February. The properties were saddled with floating-rate debt, and the loan was provided by a group of lenders.”

The Almanac in California. “The Peninsula real estate market’s early recovery at the start of this year seems to have been short-lived. After looking like it would make a rebound, the market took a strange turn, and we started seeing multiple offers and price reductions occurring simultaneously during the spring selling season. Demand, or those looking to buy, also has declined. Higher interest rates have reduced buyers’ ability to take on more leverage, further softening the demand, especially when compared to early spring 2022 when the housing market was still at the peak of the pandemic bubble.”

“Menlo Park recorded the lowest absorption ratio with 60% homes pending sale or sold, while Los Altos had the highest ratio at 68%. Palo Alto fell in the middle with 63%. In other words, approximately 32% to 40% of the total homes listed for sale in the Peninsula area this year did not sell. The median price of single-family homes that have sold in Palo Alto this year is $3.5 million, or about a 10% decline compared to last year. Los Altos experienced a smaller decline with the median price of $4 million, or a 7% decline. The number of price reductions have increased across the board this year compared to last year at the same time.”

Yahoo Finance. “Home insurers have already exited markets along the Eastern Seaboard as hurricane risks increase. But State Farm’s exit from California last month due to wildfire hazards caused a stir. ‘So now that they’ve bowed out, that’s going to be a real issue, especially in those heavy fire markets where you’re paying premium for that,’ Josh Altman, co-founder of The Altman Brothers, told Yahoo Finance Live. ‘Now, that’s going to be a major, major blow to those properties. When your fire insurance is double your mortgage payment every month, that’s a big issue,. You’re going to see a drastic drop i those markets more than any before.'”

The San Jose Spotlight in California. “A coalition of homeless and housing advocates protested at the office of the Santa Clara County Association of Realtors on June 7, six days before the San Jose City Council approved the annual budget. They yelled chants like, ‘Realtors you can’t hide, we can see your greedy side’ and ‘Everyone deserves homes’ because of the association’s support to move city dollars away from affordable housing. But now those chants could result in criminal charges—if the realtors have it their way. Association employees described the protest as an ‘invasion’ that ‘terrorized’ workers. Nearly 30 protesters from various housing nonprofits entered their building after first gathering in the parking lot with megaphones and handmade signs. Association officials said they are pursuing all legal avenues to ensure protesters never enter their building again.”

The Telegraph. “Nikki Kopelman and her husband bought their £420,000 home in 2019, securing a five-year fixed mortgage at a bargain rate of 2.5pc. But the era of cheap money is now coming to a brutal end for Britain’s homeowners. Kopelman – and millions of other borrowers – are facing rate rises that to many will be simply unaffordable. And now that the dust is settling on a grim picture for the housing market, economists say that this should all have been foreseeable – and even avoidable. More than a decade of unprecedented ultra-low interest rates was always going to come to an abrupt end. And then there were the ill-advised policy interventions. Critics say a stamp duty holiday in the pandemic poured fuel onto an already red-hot housing market.”

“Kopelman, who has been paying £1,300 a month towards her bungalow in south-east London, is increasingly worried about what lies ahead. She says: ‘We have some flex, but if our payments suddenly go up to £2,000 a month it would be fairly ridiculous. At that point we would probably just look at selling.’ The 35-year-old’s fears are shared in homes across Britain. She is just one of around 2.5 million borrowers coming to the end of cheap fixed rate deals this year and next.”

From 7 News. “The administrator of Felmeri Homes has advised the Australian Securities and Investments Commission to investigate potential dishonest and reckless business practices by the collapsed building company. Agile Business Advisory administrator Leigh Prior also said more than $300,000 was owed in outstanding wages, and further investigation was necessary to determine if the company had failed to act in good faith. He also alleged they may have ‘by false representation or other fraud, obtained on credit, any property that the company has not subsequently paid for.’ But he cast doubt on any funds being recovered if a judgement was made.”

‘It can be difficult for a liquidator to pursue a director for insolvent trading in the event of liquidation due to the defences that may be raised by a director,’ he said. Priors investigations have identified Felmeri Homes owed more than $7 million to unsecured creditors, but it’s estimated the company’s debts could balloon to more than $20 million. Most of the company’s 22 employees were sacked last month when the administrator was appointed, while a small number remained to wind down operations. About 40 customers of Felmeri had unfinished homes, while construction of about 60 clients’ homes was yet to begin.”

The Economist. “China prides itself on firm, ‘unswerving’ leadership and stable economic growth. That should make its fortunes easy to predict. But in recent months, the world’s second-biggest economy has been full of surprises, wrong-footing seasoned China-watchers and savvy investors alike. The unemployment rate among China’s urban youth rose above 20%, the highest since data began to be recorded in 2018. Some economists now think the economy might not grow at all in the second quarter, compared with the first. By China’s standards that would count as a ‘double dip,’ says Ting Lu of Nomura, a bank.”

“Much of the slowdown can be traced to China’s property market. Earlier in the year it seemed to be recovering from a disastrous spell of defaults, plummeting sales and mortgage boycotts. Gavekal Dragonomics, a consultancy, calculates that property sales have fallen back to 70% of the level they were at in the same period of 2019, China’s last relatively normal year. Housing starts are only about 40% of their 2019 level.”

“Last year local-government financing vehicles (LGFVs), quasi-commercial entities backed by the state, increased their investment spending to prop up growth. That, however, has left many of them strapped for cash. According to a recent survey of 2,892 of these vehicles by the Rhodium Group, a research firm, only 567 had enough cash on hand to meet their short-term debt obligations. In two cities, Lanzhou, the capital of Gansu province, and Guilin, a southern city famous for its picturesque Karst mountains, interest payments by LGFVs rose to over 100% of the city’s ‘fiscal capacity’ (defined as their fiscal revenues plus net cash flows from their financing vehicles). Their debt mountains are not a pretty picture.”

This Post Has 65 Comments
  1. ‘We have some flex, but if our payments suddenly go up to £2,000 a month it would be fairly ridiculous. At that point we would probably just look at selling’

    It’s a good thing you can always sell Nikkie!

  2. ‘It’s crickets,’ said Sarah Buckwalter, co-owner of an inherited four-bedroom, two-bath that’s on a tidal pond in North Falmouth, within walking distance of Old Silver Beach, and still has empty weeks this month.”

    Die, speculator scum.

  3. Has everyone who bought a second home on the Cape during the pandemic decided, en masse, to vacation at more glamorous locales, thereby flooding the market with their fancy rentals?”

    If the hedgie & private equity locusts who’ve been the exclusive beneficiaries of the Fed’s “No Billionaire Left Behind” monetary policies are feeling the pinch, what’s happening to the wanna-be real estate moguls out in flyover country?

  4. “….When your fire insurance is double your mortgage payment every month, that’s a big issue…”

    I will take $500 Alex. What doesn’t the REIConplex ever mention when they are selling properties?

    Holding costs.

    Add in [perpetually increasing] property taxes, HOA dues, maintenance, utilities and suddenly the mortgage is the least of your worries.

    1. What an strange/interesting area. It’s like the swamp equivalent of that Golden Valley in Arizona. Dirt path roads and hidden houses meant to double as SHTF bunkers, or meth houses whatever. The swamp has a grass airstrip nearby with small aircraft.

      Even with all the mold, I would say that this house is worth saving, just because the concrete is still good. BTW it seems the photo shows the back of the house, with the basement bedroom opening out to the back. The only issue I see is that the lot size is pretty small, but since the area is so wooded and isolated, that may not matter.

      1. That $5000 was just for the land, not the structure. What is a place like this worth? Certainly not $125K, but the utilities and septic are probably worth $40-$50K.(?) I wonder if the place was ever lived in. Doesn’t look like it.

  5. “Realtors you can’t hide, we can see your greedy side”

    Oh my, this thing hasn’t even really begun and it’s already pitchforks and torches? If I’m a realtor right now I’m rethinking that billboard I rented to plaster my face with on the highway outside of town.

  6. A reader sent these in:

    NEW month, NEW record. Average auto loan rate on a new car: 8.99% APR 🥵

    And then we told them it was a $6.2 billion “accounting error”…

    So you’re telling me we can accidentally send another country $6.2 billion, but if I send my friend $14 on venmo I have 87,000 IRS agents watching me?

    In 2017, CEO of BlackRock, Larry Fink, said: “Bitcoin just shows you how much demand for money laundering there is in the world.” Last week, BlackRock, $BLK, filed for a spot bitcoin ETF.

    Buying NVIDIA shares today costs you 40 times historical annual revenues. That’s 40 years to get your money back, assuming $0 cost, 0% tax and a 100% payout ratio. Good luck!

    Whenever I hear someone mention QT as if it’s a real thing I just look at this chart and smile.

    🚨WSJ: “More than 100 places reported increases in early 2023 counts compared with 2022, and collectively, their numbers indicate the U.S. may see a sharper climb than in recent years.” The Fed may cause the worst homelessness crisis in American history.

    More banks about to fail. Rumor is Mortgage giant Loan Depot is on the ropes. Regional banks and mortgage companies are falling. Please be careful. I would not believe anything Pres Biden, Fed Chairman Powell or Sec Treasury Yellin say. Think for yourself.

    New data just in today on Chinese residential construction investment…looks like the PBoC will have to cut some more👇

    Housing starts +21.7%, largest M/M since 2016 & permits also +5.2%. Jumps that big are hard to ignore. Powell at FOMC, “I don’t know that housing is itself going to be driving the rates picture, but it’s part of it.

    Housing is one of the primary channels monetary policy is transmitted to the real economy. It’s not working. And core inflation has been stuck between 4 and 5% for months

    1. The Fed may cause the worst homelessness crisis in American history.

      I think Thomas Jefferson predicted this would happen.

    2. “we can accidentally send another country $6.2 billion”

      Ukraine isn’t a country, it’s a money laundering operation. And as Blackrock was recently caught on camera admitting, it’s “great for business.”

  7. could be a lot worse ,like in that minivan sized sub,on the bottom of the ocean… they were running it with a refurbished game console ? sounds unsafe … every way….

    1. One would think that there would be some failsafe mechanism to rise to the surface in the case of a catastrophic failure.

      I hope the E ticket ride was worth it.

  8. could be a lot worse ,like in that minivan sized sub,on the bottom of the ocean… they were running it with a refurbished game console ? sounds unsafe … every way….

  9. It’s been a while since I’ve had a mortgage and I’m not that knowledgeable anyway…..why didn’t or why could the latest borrowers lock in at 3% or whatever the low rate was?

    1. in the US yes, in most other countries (canada, england, Aus for sure), they don’t have a 30 year fixed. It’s “fixed” for 5 years, then you redo at the current rates. Or it’s floating and readjusts automatically every so often. Yeah, all the risk is on you, little on the “banks” making the loan.

      1. It’s “fixed” for 5 years

        Or even less, like 2 or 3 years. Which is why loandebtors in other countries are waiting in dread for their mortgage rate to change.

        And many of them chose fully variable, as it got them a lower rate at the time. Those are the Brits, Canucks, Kiwis and Aussies we read about frequently in this blog, who are getting second jobs to make the new, much bigger, mortgage payment.

  10. Washington Post — National test scores plunge, with still no sign of pandemic recovery (6/21/2023):

    “National test scores plummeted for 13-year-olds, according to new data that shows the single largest drop in math in 50 years and no signs of academic recovery following the disruptions of the pandemic.

    Student scores plunged nine points in math and four points in reading on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), often regarded as the nation’s report card. The release Wednesday reflected testing in fall 2022, comparing it to the same period in 2019, before the pandemic began.”

    The alleged “pandemic” didn’t close schools, government closed schools.

    Another World Economic Forum success story, dumb them down enough they can’t recognize the symptoms of their increasing enslavement.

    1. can’t recognize the symptoms of their increasing enslavement

      As long as they have pizza and video games, it’s all good.

        1. I can’t scream loudly enough to anyone who will listen that it’s Common Core. The decline started in the early 2010’s right when Common Core was implemented in all the biggest blue states, and beyond. There was a massive drop in testing scores when the tests adopted Common Core a year or two after it was introduced into the curriculum. It’s been a steady decline since, combined with the waste of time SEL and other mandated nonsense (my state has mandatory LGBTQ-MAP history at almost any grade level) and then covid. For example, one school I’m aware of in Chicago, as I was told from a friend, had an elementary school play (They still do those?). The play was fairy tales rewritten with lesbian princesses and ‘gurl power’ like kicking the princes in the crotch. For K-8. I’m not making this up. This isn’t even in the news, although it should be, because it is just so widely accepted its not even considered unusual by any of the parents who watched it, except for my buddy who is probably the only conservative parent in the school.

          1. Ah yes, Commie Core. From what I heard but haven’t fully researched because my son’s in special education, funded by Bill Gates then pushed by Obama into states using monetary enticements.

    2. Today, in a local Italian place, the young lady taking my cash had to supply change via a lockbox (no register). She had to break out her iPhone to provide my change for a $19.35 bill. I guess my handing her a $20 bill was confusing. 🙄

          1. And never put the customer’s payment into the drawer until after they have received your counted change. 🙂

  11. CNBC — Starter homes have become a ‘fairy tale,’ so Americans are finding other ways to own (6/21/2023):

    “Co-buying with friends is an increasingly popular idea, as the number of co-buyers with different last names has increased by 31% since 2019, according to most recent data from ATTOM, a property data provider.

    This, and other unusual housing situations, are largely out of necessity: U.S. median home prices have surged 33% since January 2020, from $329,000 to $436,800. To afford the monthly mortgage payment on a median-priced home, homebuyers need to earn more than $100,000, well above the U.S. median household income of $70,784, according to Census Bureau data.

    And the “starter home” — typically, a modestly priced two-bedroom home with fewer amenities, such as less storage space or no backyard — has become exceedingly rare, except in a handful of markets.

    “The idea of a ‘starter home’ has become more of a fairy tale,” says Denis Smykalov, a Florida-based real estate broker at Wolsen Real Estate.

    Yet another World Economic Forum success story, living with roommates into your 30’s and beyond.

    1. While I agree homes remain very unaffordable in California, I’m not convinced median wages to median prices is an accurate measure. About 50% of dwellers are renters in Los Angeles, which is common in many metropolitan areas. This may be because some wages are never going to be enough to buy a home, however small. Median incomes of home owners to median price may be a more accurate way to measure affordability. Having said that, there appears to be a large gap between incomes and home prices. Even rents as an indicator of value can be misleading since they too have increased dramatically. It would be useful if we had a formula to arrive at a price, such as exists for securities. Values based on comps is misleading when home prices are vey high and this is what drives everything. It is ironic that homes appreciate in market value while depreciate in asset value. In other words, willingness to pay a premium for an asset that has lost use with age.

  12. Covid vaccines are poison:

    “According to a 2021 report by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, there are 12 anti-vaxxers who are responsible for approximately two-thirds of the anti‑vaccine content that’s shared on social media platforms — including Kennedy. Now, as he kicks off his campaign, while clearly targeting podcasts as a favored medium, Kennedy has an opportunity to recirculate the dangerous misinformation he’s been spreading for years.

    And as the misinformation spreads, it’s possible that more people will buy into it. Kennedy is reportedly pulling 20 percent support among Democratic primary voters, a figure which includes people like football player Aaron Rodgers and former Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey.”

    From Salon (no link provided). The alleged Center cited in this article is not a legitimate authority of anything.

    Giving themselves their phony name implies that they are a legitimate organization, which they are not.

    Follow the money, and you’ll always find the same people entangled in all of this.

    1. Prior to the whole covid thing, the only anti-vaccine people I knew were leftist hippies. Much like transgenderism, it was largely confined to a few urban areas.

        1. I know some Protestant Fundamentalists who are opposed to all vaccines.

          That makes sense. I grew up in deep blue urban areas and live in one now, so religious folks were and are seldom represented to me.

          1. I knew hordes of Protestant Fundamentalists when I lived in SoCal, many were coworkers.

  13. Peak to trough (May 22 to Jan 23) for San Fransisco was more than 20% decline in median price, according to Redfin. There’s been a small seasonal spring bounce this year, which is odd given the large increase in the cost to borrow. However, the median price is noisy and can fluctuate from one month to the next. Of course, the median price doesn’t tell you what’s happening in the other other percentiles. For example, more expensive homes are probably sitting longer and losing price traction faster. I expect price declines will resume in June and the downward trend will continue through 2023, and part of 2024. Why? Because the Fed has already indicated two more hikes this year and because of the lag effect this has on home prices. Many forget pre-covid home prices were already unaffordable, due to the very low cost to borrow. First, we need to shake out the covid froth, and that’s fully underway.

    1. “For example, more expensive homes are probably sitting longer and losing price traction faster.”

      High end price points losing value the fastest don’t sell, while the owners hope and pray for a miracle to occur. These are underrepresented in price change statistics.

      Less upscale homes whose value dropped the least or are perceived as ‘still affordable’ to mortgage-financed knifecatchers sell faster. They are overrepresented in average price change metrics. Overall, the bias in the observed data attenuates the magnitude of home equity loss that shows up in official statistics.

      Same thing happened early on in the 2006-2012 CR8R event. After the wheels fell off the financial bus in fall 2008, everything went to fire sale pricing, right up until when the Fed targeted Quantitative Easing on mortgage-backed securities, circa 2012.

  14. ‘Homeowners suspect that is because the developer would have to show the total amount collected for fees from more than 30 homeowners would have to be disclosed and what the money has been spent on. ‘We don’t know if that money exists’

    Frying pan hits face <- Owner, you are here.

  15. ‘Now, that’s going to be a major, major blow to those properties. When your fire insurance is double your mortgage payment every month, that’s a big issue. You’re going to see a drastic drop in those markets more than any before’

    That’s the spirit Josh, two days in a row, keep up the good work!

    1. When your fire insurance is double your mortgage payment

      Meaning: the risk that your house could burn down is not trivial. Thank Gov. Gruesome and his gang of grifters for that. Forest management has to cause climate change, or covid or something.

    2. When your fire insurance is double your mortgage payment every month

      Talk about hyperbole. Using my example yesterday: a $2.2M house with an assumed annual insurance premium of $10,000 (4X what my State Farm agent was quoting 3 years ago for houses I was looking at). Monthly mortgage payment (principal + interest) assuming 20% down: $11,561. Monthly insurance premium: $833.

    3. If insurance is a requirement to qualify for a mortgage, and insurers refuse to cover California homes in fire-prone areas, which includes most of the state, how will prospective buyers obtain the funding needed to buy California homes for $1 million and up?

      Good thing so few homes are for sale!

      1. The California FAIR Plan is the insurer of last resort. That’s what we’re currently left with.

        1. I am awfully glad to know that California uses my and other taxpayers’ contributions to help other Californians borrow crazy amounts to purchase homes in areas where private insurance companies won’t offer coverage. Makes me feel good to know I am doing my part…

  16. “The OceanGate CEO who is trapped on a 22-foot submersible on an ill-fated voyage to see the Titanic wreck once explained how he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they weren’t “inspirational.”

    Maybe some Haitians will come rescue you and you’ll get “inspired.” That oxygen is running out, think about your words while you suffocate and die ☠️

    1. Business
      An ‘average’ American income may no longer cut it
      by Daniel de Visé 06/21/23 06:00 AM ET

      An average American income isn’t enough for a comfortable living in 2023, according to two recent reports.

      The typical U.S. family earns about $71,000 per year, according to the Census. Yet, the average American believes a family needs at least $85,000 in annual household income to get by, according to a recent Gallup poll.

      That finding tracks with a recent study from SmartAsset, a financial technology company, which found the average American worker needs $68,499 in after-tax income to live comfortably. (That works out to around $85,000 in total income, assuming a 20-percent tax hit.)

      The two releases point to the same conclusion: Many Americans earn too little in 2023 to attain a decent standard of living in their communities.

  17. OceanGate CEO Didn’t Hire ’50-Year-Old White Guys’ for Titanic Sub Because They’re Not ‘Inspirational’

    21 Jun 2023

    OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, who is lost at sea on a submersible that he and four others took to visit the Titanic wreckage, once explained that he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they are not “inspirational.”

    “When I started the business, old-timers in the industry told me I was nuts, and they continue to tell me that — partly because I said I was going to take inexperienced pilots in a submarine, in current, in zero visibility — and they thought I was insane,” Rush told Teledyne Marine in a resurfaced Zoom interview.

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