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A Dramatic Price Cut, Reflective Of The Current Slow Market

A report from Market Watch. “Wall Street’s foray back into lending to homeowners with spotty credit isn’t looking great during the coronavirus pandemic. It’s still early days, but delinquencies on residential mortgages bundled into private bond deals, or without government backing, have shot up to about 18% as of July from a low of about 4% in January, according to Goldman Sachs. The Goldman chart breaks out the performance of loans in ‘non-QM’ bond deals from those pegged as ‘prime,’ a category that unsurprisingly has reported far lower delinquencies of 30-days or more.”

“Prime borrowers typically have credit scores of 670 or higher, with those in the subprime category closer to an 580 to 669 range, according to Experian. ‘While housing market prospects appear favorable, the outlook for residential credit exposure remains somewhat cloudy,’ wrote a team led by Marty Young.”

From Bloomberg. “Almost twice the percentage of Ginnie Mae borrowers have demanded forbearance compared to conventional ones, according to a Mortgage Bankers Association report. Ginnie Mae is known to cater to homeowners of lower credit quality, and the forbearance numbers highlight the difference.”

From The Real Deal. “Almost 11 million households were behind on rent or mortgage payments during the first three months of the pandemic. Nearly 6 million of those households were renters, who reported either missing, delaying or paying reduced rent during the second quarter of the year, according to a report from the Mortgage Bankers Association. Just over 5 million households were homeowners that missed or deferred at least one mortgage payment.”

“The effect on multifamily property owners and mortgage lenders was in the billions, the report found. Unpaid rent cost landlords about $9.1 billion in revenue, while missed mortgage payments totaled an estimated $16.3 billion.”

From Fox 5 Vegas in Nevada. “Governor Steve Sisolak described being hopeful that funding for rental assistance and unemployment benefits will come to Nevadans by the October 15 deadline. Landlord Jason Trindade expresses his doubts. ‘I’m not confident in any kind of government assistance programs right now, at all,’ he said. The owner of Desert Moon Motel and Towne and Country Motel has 15 tenants at risk of eviction. Most have not received unemployment aid or rental assistance, despite months of waiting.”

“Trindade has lost $70,000 in expenses. The Payroll Protection Program and a grant from the City of Las Vegas has helped recoup $16,000 in funds. He is still waiting for CHAP funding from the CARES Act for landlords. ‘If I close my doors here, I’m not going to be able to provide free housing either,’ he said.”

From King 5 in Washington. “A group of landlords is suing the city of Seattle over rules set up to protect renters from evictions. ‘I’m being forced to act as a welfare agency,’ said Scott Dolfay, one of the plaintiffs, who owns and rents out a one-bedroom house near Fauntleroy Park in Seattle. Dolfay said the current tenants of his house owe him about $5,000. Dolfay said the extra financial burden he’s under may force him to sell his rental house next year.”

“‘This is only going to allow for corporations to be landlords in the future because everyone like me will just sell and get out,’ he said.”

From News Channel 20 in Illinois. “Stella Dean is a Springfield landlord that owns several properties. She says the move to extend the eviction ban is financially devastating. Dean estimates at least half of Springfield landlords are single-location property owners. ‘The domino effect for non-payment of a rental property will be eventually, the owner of the property will file for bankruptcy,’ Dean said.”

From Real Estate Weekly. “New York City landlords are proposing a rent forgiveness program and reintroduction of preferential rents to help them – and their tenants – survive the COVID crisis. The Community Housing Improvement Program (CHIP) said today that tenants are fleeing the city at alarming rates and, with no federal help in sight, it was time for the city to act and avert a real crisis. In its latest survey of rent regulated properties in the city, CHIP found that vacancy has risen to 12.55 percent and more that 17 percent of renters were behind on their rent.”

“Members reported that they are offering concessions averaging a net effect of 1.4 months of free rent to tenants (either through dropping the asking rent or giving a month or two of the lease term rent free) in order to be more competitive on the rental market and combat the growing number of vacant units. ‘For a sixth straight month, housing providers have borne a huge financial burden due to the COVID-19 emergency with little help from the government. We need solutions now. We can no longer wait for the federal government to bail us out,’ said Jay Martin, executive director of CHIP.”

From Barron’s on New York. “A penthouse in a prewar co-op building in Manhattan’s Upper East Side has chopped one-third, or $5 million, off its listing price—from $15 million to $10 million—due to a slow market caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. ‘It’s a dramatic price cut, reflective of the current slow market due to the Covid-19 pandemic,’ said Maria Serena Torresy of Brown Harris Stevens.”

The Miami Herald in Florida. “Ibrahim Al-Rashid bought his neighbor’s Hibiscus Island home for about $6.3 million on Friday. The owner, Jessica Molly Snyder, placed the house on the market about a year ago, but Al-Rashid said the original listing price of $8 million was too high.”

From Forbes on California. “Not even a celebrity name is immune to a price reduction in the softening market of San Francisco. As one of the most expensive real estate markets in America, the city might be on the cusp of seeing something it hasn’t seen in a very long time: a buyers’ market. By the end of August almost 25% of homes on the market in San Francisco had come down in price, according to the Redfin Data Center, and the number of listings that entered the market during August was 75% higher compared to one year earlier (during the four weeks ending August 23rd).”

“Robin Williams’ house is just one of the many homes seeing a price cut across the city. The 6,500-square-foot contemporary first entered the market last November for $7.25 million, but now it has come back on the market for $5.99 million.”

The Los Angeles Times in California. “‘Flip or Flop’ star Tarek El Moussa and his fiancée just grabbed something a bit closer to the ocean. The newly engaged couple have paid $3.125 million for a place in Newport Beach, records show. It appears the pair got a decent deal on the place; the property last sold in 2018 for $3.839 million, records show.”

From Capital and Main on California. “‘COVID-19 has impacted everyone in California – but some bear much more of the burden than others, especially tenants struggling to stitch together the monthly rent,’ California Gov. Gavin Newsom said in a statement, ‘and they deserve protection from eviction.’ Both moratoriums left unresolved the mountain of debt that await 40 million tenants across the U.S., including 17 million in hard-hit California.”

“‘This is literally like the Great Depression, and you need a New Deal-style relief program,’ says Los Angeles City Councilmember David Ryu. ‘The time for austere measures is over. This is when government needs to step up, when nobody else can do it.'”

“Any landlords motivated by the prospect of raising rents following evictions from their units may be in for disappointment. Despite soaring rents from before the outbreak, a new windfall is unlikely as mass evictions, mass vacancies and increased homelessness potentially lead only to lower rents and falling property values. Rent in Manhattan is already down an average of 6 percent in the wake of COVID-19, with vacancies more than twice what they were a year before. San Francisco rents have fallen nearly 12 percent during the same period.”

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This Post Has 133 Comments

  2. ‘Prime borrowers typically have credit scores of 670 or higher, with those in the subprime category closer to an 580 to 669 range’

    But oxide said there’s no subprime?

    1. What I really said was that, unlike 2005, there are no more mortgages which allowed payments under full amortization; i.e., banks no longer offer I/O or Neg-am. Nobody here has shown me an example of a post-2009 readily-available loan which is less than full PITI.

      1. ‘a post-2009 readily-available loan which is less than full PITI’

        What about millions of forbearance loans?

        ZING!

        1. Exactly. Somehow all of these people who are currently allowed to live through the government-engineered COVID-19 economic collapse without making any mortgage payments are expected to magically come up with the backpayments plus new payments after the nightmare ends.

          Deferred payment loans are much worse than interest-only or pick-a-payment loans, as the balance due grows with compound interest during the deferment period, even as home equity wealth gains go negative due to falling prices.

          Unless the Fed comes up with a means of reversing the falling home prices that Ben documents here 365 days a year, lots of people are going to find themselves underwater on tgeir mortgages with no escape when COVID-19 ends.

        2. So you’re saying that it takes a once-in-a-century epidemic to bring back I/O loans — for 6 months out of 360?

          And I will be very surprised if any of the mortgage forebearances will be forgiven, principle or interest. I haven’t seen any signs that say “Cancel PITI.” That money will be paid, even if by selling the house.

          1. Here’s yer subprime:

            March 26, 2020

            “As America heads into a deep recession, the $11 trillion residential-mortgage market is in crisis. Investors who buy home loans packaged into bonds are dumping even those with federal backing because of panic that millions might not make their payments. Yet one risky sector had started to show cracks long before the coronavirus pandemic sparked the worst financial meltdown in 12 years: the federal government’s largest affordable-housing program, whose lenient terms are geared toward marginal borrowers.”

            “As real estate prices soared in recent years, working-class adults everywhere have increasingly relied on mortgages backed by the Federal Housing Administration — and U.S. taxpayers. Since 2007, the FHA’s portfolio has tripled in value to more than $1.2 trillion, almost 11% of the market. While private lenders make these loans, they are packaged into Ginnie Mae bonds, common in mutual funds and pensions.”

            “Before Covid-19 started roiling China, a November FHA report found that 27% of borrowers last year spent more than half their incomes on debt, a level it describes as ‘unprecedented.’ The share of FHA loans souring in their first six months has doubled over the last three years to almost 1%.”

            “Not long ago, Alex Castillo drove his shiny black Infiniti SUV through an office park north of the San Antonio airport, along a busy seven-mile stretch of highway that loan officers call ‘Mortgage Row’ because of its abundance of small independent mortgage companies that dominate FHA lending. Castillo, who has the words ‘The Dream Starts Here’ stitched into his jacket, works for Pennsylvania-based American Residential Lending. Oddly, amid the pandemic, his business is booming. His customers locked in FHA mortgages after interest rates plunged this month — adding to federally backed mortgage debt.”

            “‘If the government tells me you’re good enough to get a loan, I have to trust and believe in the government,’ Castillo said. ‘Then we just hope and pray that the client doesn’t get foreclosed on.’”

            “In downtown San Antonio, scores of investors stood on a parched lawn beside the city’s historic granite-and-red-sandstone courthouse. It was the first Tuesday of February, the day of the foreclosure auction. Matt Badders, a San Antonio lawyer who represents lenders, auctioned off two houses. The failed mortgages remind him of the run-up to the financial crisis 12 years ago, when lending to customers with spotty credit nearly brought down the world’s financial system. ‘We’re almost back to 2007, when mortgage originators are waking people up on park benches, saying sign here,’ Badders said.”

            “At the auction, the crowd bid on 338 homes, a third with FHA mortgages, according to Roddy’s Foreclosure Listing Service. One house had dual master bedrooms, a game room and granite kitchen counters. It sold for $202,000 — $52,000 less than the homeowner borrowed only two years ago. The taxpayer-backed FHA insurance fund will take a loss.”

            “Dave Stevens, FHA commissioner under President Barack Obama and former chief executive officer of the Mortgage Bankers Association, said a recession will expose hidden risks in home lending. ‘This should be an alarm bell to policymakers,’ Stevens said. ‘Sometimes you get blinded by a good economy and suddenly look at it and see a bubble of defaults coming.’”

            “The federal government has decided it doesn’t want to pursue — and has asked a judge to dismiss — a lawsuit against Utah-based Academy Mortgage Corp. The judge refused. The suit claims the company’s staff would repeatedly feed information into an automated federal underwriting system, manipulating it until the computer gave the green light. ‘Decline is a curse word,’ Plaintiff Gwen Thrower, a former underwriter, quoted a manager as saying. ‘We don’t use it.’”

            http://housingbubble.blog/?p=3070

          2. “That money will be paid, even if by selling the house.”

            How’s that work with underwater loans? Does the Fed chip in the shortfall when they buy the loans from the lender at par?

        1. At the end of the day, you can expect a sweet bailout to sweep the billions of collapsed mortgage loans the lenders are currently HODLing onto the Fed’s balance sheet.

      4. No. You said subprime mortgages don’t exist.

        The truth is 90% + of the mortgage market is subprime and had been since 2009.

        Now housing prices are cratering.

        El Dorado Hills, CA Housing Prices Crater 13% YOY As Sacramento Area Rental Rates Tank On Skyrocketing Vacancy Rate

        https://www.zillow.com/el-dorado-hills-ca-95762/home-values/

        https://snag.gy/m5EzRB.jpg

        As a noted economist advises, “If you have to borrow for 15 or 30 years, it’s not affordable nor can you afford it.”

  3. ‘Not even a celebrity name is immune to a price reduction in the softening market of San Francisco. As one of the most expensive real estate markets in America, the city might be on the cusp of seeing something it hasn’t seen in a very long time: a buyers’ market’

    SF has been sinking like turd in a well for years.

    1. SF has been dropping, but don’t use the Williams’ house as a typical example. That house would be a difficult sell even in normal times. Who would want to live in the house where Robin committed suicide?
      They would do better to make it into a small museum.

  4. ‘We need solutions now. We can no longer wait for the federal government to bail us out’

    They can’t even send out $600 checks Jay. Have you thought of asking Mexico? Or guvnah “I shot myself in the fook!”

    1. Governor Nuisance really screwed the pooch, by killing the California economy with only a massive COVID-19 outbreak and BLM riots to show for it.

  5. ‘This is literally like the Great Depression, and you need a New Deal-style relief program,’ says Los Angeles City Councilmember David Ryu. ‘The time for austere measures is over. This is when government needs to step up, when nobody else can do it’

    Calm down Dave, you guys need to go back to work. I realize that Californians seem to only know that other four letter word. Also from the same article:

    “The last thing we need is a whole bunch of people being displaced,” says Elena Popp, executive director of the Eviction Defense Network, which provides legal services to tenants. “I just got back from court: The halls were busy. I felt unsafe.”

    Has there ever been a collection of whiny bi$$$es bigger than California in 2020?

    1. Number of adults in California = 30,075,100
      Number of adults in California who are seniors = 5,315,460
      Number of working age adults in California (not seniors) = 24,759,640
      California labor force = 19,168 million
      Number of employed Californians = 16,574,300
      Number of unemployed working age adults in California =
      24,759,640 – 16,574,300 = 8,185,340
      Unemployed working age adults as a share of all working age adults = 8,185,340 / 24,759,640 = 33%

      Although this calculation may have a few warts, but I somehow find it more convincing than California’s Employement Development Division estimate of 11.4% unemployment. The problem with the EDD calculation is that it excludes people who choose not to work, which apparently is a pretty large number in California.

      1. How many of those 8 million non workers are on welfare? I don’t think there are too many stay at home spouses these days.

    2. Scroll down to have a look at the Unemployment Insurance Claims figure on this EDD web site. Apparently they need to rescale the graph to capture new weekly claims in recent weeks, which have been running north of 200,000 per week, higher than comparable figures for the entire U.S.

      2. The status, “unemployed,” only applied during the first six months since the last employment, IIRC.

        Then there’s that nasty status, “underemployed.” Too many find themselves in gig jobs rather than real family supporting employment with benefits.

  6. ‘paid $3.125 million for a place in Newport Beach, records show. It appears the pair got a decent deal on the place; the property last sold in 2018 for $3.839 million’

    Wa happened to my red-hotcakes UHS?

  7. ‘The effect on multifamily property owners and mortgage lenders was in the billions, the report found. Unpaid rent cost landlords about $9.1 billion in revenue, while missed mortgage payments totaled an estimated $16.3 billion’

    Is that a lot?

    ‘Dolfay said the extra financial burden he’s under may force him to sell his rental house next year’

    Why next year Scott? Oh right, nobody in their right mind would touch a shack in a socialist sh$t-hole this year.

  8. It’s still early days, but delinquencies on residential mortgages bundled into private bond deals, or without government backing, have shot up to about 18% as of July from a low of about 4% in January, according to Goldman Sachs.

    Even using Common Core maff, it looks like mortgage delinquencies are going parabolic. Who’d have thunk that lending money to the manifestly non-creditworthy so they could buy insanely overpriced shacks could possibly end in tears?

    1. “…Who’d have thunk that lending money to the manifestly non-creditworthy so they could buy insanely overpriced shacks could possibly end in tears?…”

      But, but, Suzanne said we could do this!

  9. Welps looks like renting for a few more years in overpriced California as homes pending too fast over asking price and low inventory in Sacramento until I can buy out of state and crash ever takes place here in Sacramento!

    1. Patience, grasshopper! This party is only getting started…


      U.S. Home Prices Predicted to Dip in Second Half of 2020
      Residential News » San Francisco Edition | By WPJ Staff | June 19, 2020 9:01 AM ET

      Based on Zillow’s latest May 2020 Real Estate Market Report, U.S. home values may decline in the second half of the year.
      …
      In April 2020, home values grew 0.41% month over month. In May, that slowed to 0.35%, the biggest one-month slowdown since March 2019 and a possible indicator that the market is headed for home value declines in the coming months. The most recent forecast from Zillow’s economic research team shows an expected 1.8% drop in prices through October 2020 from the highs in February, with a slow price recovery by mid-spring in 2021. The year-over-year change is forecasted to bottom out at -0.7%.

      May’s home value growth slowdown was widespread, hitting 27 of the 35 largest U.S. metros. Home value growth slowed the most over April in a mix of the most expensive areas (San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles and Seattle), what had been the hottest markets (Phoenix, Columbus and Indianapolis) and metros in states with a relatively high number of COVID-19 cases (Detroit and Pittsburgh).

      Home values outright fell from April to May in five metros — San Francisco, San Jose, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles and Sacramento.

      “Home buyers returned to the market earlier than might have been expected given the state of the economy, finding a market starved for inventory because of seller uncertainty. This improved demand has supported home prices and appears to have given sellers a confidence boost as new listings have slowly picked up,” said Skylar Olsen, senior principal economist at Zillow. “The next question housing will face is whether this growth can continue after demand built up during housing’s brief pause in the pandemic’s early days runs its course. It’s likely housing will feel the broader economy’s downturn eventually, though to a mild degree, and home values will fall in the coming months.”
      …

      2. Don’t house prices always dip in the second half of the year and rise in the spring? The selling season is based on the school year.

    1. LOL! Sad but true indeed.

      Someone bring me a teddy bear…I want to show you where Crooked Hillary…touched me…when I encountered her roaming the woods.

      #MeTooPayoutLottery

      1. ‘Almost immediately after news of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s death, some verified Twitter users threatened arson and apparent violence in order to block Republicans from replacing her before the elections.’

        “If they even TRY to replace RBG we burn the entire f—–g thing down,” author Reza Aslan tweeted. He later responded to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s vow to hold a vote on President Trump’s nominee. “Over our dead bodies, literally,” he tweeted.’

        ‘Author Aaron Gouveia similarly blasted McConnell’s statement, saying: “F–k no. Burn it all down.”

        ‘A Canadian political science professor called for arson, prompting accusations he made a terroristic threat. “Burn Congress down before letting Trump try to appoint anyone to SCOTUS,” Waterloo professor Emmett MacFarlane tweeted.’

        https://www.foxnews.com/media/ginsburg-death-burn-it-down-threats

        In a law and order election, such statements may backfire.

        Have you noticed these people can’t open their mouths without the F word?

        1. You ever notice how the marxists and democrats think they have a monopoly on violence?

          They keep pushing for a civil war.

          They have no idea of how brutal and barbaric it will be.

          They think they will just round up folks to the gulags by edict.

        3. Twitter routinely bans truth-tellers on the flimsiest of pretexts, while unhinged leftists can openly call for violence and murder with zero possibility of being banned or even admonished.

        7. After all the fawning MSM tributes to RBG, it’s refreshing to see a more candid assessment.

          http://thezman.com/wordpress/

          Ginsberg was the example of everything that has gone wrong with America. Her tenure as a justice was defined by her doctrinaire screeds against ordered liberty. The only reason she was on the court was due to the unwritten rule that at least four justices must be Progressive fanatics, preferably Jewish ones. Her career on the lower court made clear that she would always follow orders from the Left. She did not write a single opinion that was not known in advance.

          Of course, the issue in her final days was the fact that she was nothing more than an animated corpse, but she refused to retire. There was no way she was lucid enough and competent enough to perform her duty, but the system allows a justice to stay on until they take their last breath. In theory, Congress can remove them, but that never happens, so the judges can stick around until death. With Ginsberg, it did not matter as all of her opinions were written in advance for her.

      1. The leading Trump choice is female and Catholic. Go right ahead, Democrats, and piss off those two constituencies right before the general election.

      2. If he pulls it off, it will hit Democrats where it hurts, by undermining one of their claims of superiority, namely in the gender equality arena.

  11. Despite soaring rents from before the outbreak, a new windfall is unlikely as mass evictions, mass vacancies and increased homelessness potentially lead only to lower rents and falling property values.

    California is sinking into a Third World socialist dystopia. Rents and property values have entered the same death spiral as the rest of that one-party People’s Republic.

  12. “It’s a dramatic price cut, reflective of the current slow market due to the Covid-19 pandemic”

    New York City and the surrounding Northeast are now the safest places in the country with regard to Covid-19. Aside from the entertainment, hospitality and air transportation industries, which still face pandemic-related problems, Covid-19 is not the cause of anything here. Just the excuse.

    1. It appears that mandatory masks are doing their job keeping the curve flattened. Maryland just reopened all their business at lowered capacity. Restaurants at 75% indoor capacity, with the exception of three hot-spot counties. If I were the gov, I would maybe throw a bone to gyms, bars, and travel, but everything is moving on.

      1. ‘A series of emails sent between the Nashville mayor’s office and the local health department point to a coverup of the fact that recorded cases of coronavirus linked to the city’s bars and restaurants was unexpectedly low. Local news outlet Fox 17 reported on the emails.’

        ‘On June 30, the health department’s tally of COVID-19 cases stemming from local bars and restaurants was 22. Email correspondence between Leslie Waller, an employee of the Metro Health Department, and Benjamin Eagles, senior adviser to Mayor John Cooper, included this exchange regarding the number of cases:

        “This isn’t going to be publicly released, right? Just info for Mayor’s Office?” Waller wrote.’

        “Correct, not for public consumption,” Eagles responded.’

        ‘On July 2, all bars in the county were ordered to close for two weeks, and officials tightened restrictions on restaurants as the city scaled back efforts to reopen.

        In a Tennessean article published the same day, Cooper is quoted as saying bars were responsible for a “record number of clusters” of coronavirus cases that week.

        ‘In late July, a reporter asked the health department about a report that only about 80 cases had been linked to local eateries and bars. In total, the county reportedly had 20,000 cases.’

        ” … doesn’t that mean restaurants and bars aren’t a very big problem?” Nate Rau asked the department via email, after citing the number of cases.’

        ‘A chain of internal emails were sent about how to respond to Rau’s question. One, which has the sender’s name removed from the copy of the email Fox 17 acquired, reads, in part: “We have certainly refused to give counts per bar because those numbers are low per site. We could still release the total though, and then a response to the over 80 could be because that number is increasing all the time and we don’t want to say a specific number.”

        https://disrn.com/news/emails-between-nashville-mayors-office-health-department-indicate-coverup-of-low-covid-numbers-linked-to-city-bars-restaurants

        This isn’t about the CCP virus. It’s an attempt to destroy the economy. As I said months ago, there are people out there who hate capitalism, hate the country, want to destroy property/property rights. Now we’ve seen “death to America chants”.

        1. coronavirus linked to the city’s bars and restaurants

          What is their definition of “linked?” Officially identified by contact tracing? I’ve already said that contact tracing is useless.

          1. I’ve already said that contact tracing is useless.

            Bleaching your groceries is useless.

            Plexiglass cashier shields are useless.

            Standing back six feet at the checkout line is useless.

            Excess deaths is turning out to be quite less than extraordinary when viewed on a multiple year timeline, around the world.

            Dr. Fauci with his 1% prediction was quite useless, lying even. That’s how we got the 2+ million to die in the US prediction. Why did he do that???

            The PCR test is useless, and more and more are recognizing why. So “case count” is useless, especially when “cases” are not sick or dying.

            I’m tied up in a small post industrial town on the Erie canal. It’s a nice stop, with shower and laundry facilities for “boaters”, free 30 amp power & etc. This is the back side of Main St and there are several restaurant/bars with outdoor patios on the canal side. There’s usually a lot of people eating and drinking and music. It is quiet enough to hear a pin drop. I saw one couple seated at one place earlier. This is Saturday night.

            The people patting themselves on the back for doing this to us are not exactly “useless”.

      2. “It appears that mandatory masks are doing their job keeping the curve flattened.”

        How do you prove that? Because some talking head said so? Didn’t Sweden’s curve flatten too? Wonder how that happened.

  13. Michael Moore is one of the few on the Left who predicted Trump’s victory, correctly stating that in the heartland, the people who had been shafted by globalism were fed up with the corrupt political elites who they blamed for their plight. Now Moore is warning that Biden’s campaign is “worse than Hillary’s” – and she was a terrible candidate who ran a terrible campaign. Oh dear…not sure the Democrats can pull off voter fraud on the magnitude needed to make up for such a horrific ticket.

    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/michael-moore-sounds-alarm-biden-michigan-campaign

    1. All they had to do to win was nominate someone reasonable and cut out the “white people bad” rhetoric. But no, that couldn’t be done. Instead they set the country on fire and are threatening to do it again if they don’t get their way.

      1. Well, the Republicans certainly didn’t nominate someone reasonable.

        And as a result, the Democrats decided to nominate someone for President whose only positive attribute is reasonableness — and being old enough that they could say “get rid of Trump and you’ll only be stuck with his replacement for 4 years.”

        They figure it’s about Trump, and don’t want anyone who would distract from that.

        1. ‘certainly didn’t nominate someone reasonable’

          That’s your opinion. Down here near the Mexico border, we think open borders is sorta unreasonable. Recall that Tucson, a Democrat city, solidly defeated a sanctuary city referendum.

          1. Open borders vs. banning all immigrants, legal and illegal, and being hostile to those immigrant-like people you can’t get rid of.

            That would be the choice isn’t it?

            I’m not fooled by a “one-time amnesty,” OR by opposition to just “illegal” immigrants. Turns out illegal has nothing to do with it.

          2. And allow me to remind you of my solution to the issue. Limit legal immigrants to certain parts of the country — new and existing.

            Those in Arizona would be given three years to sell any property they have, close any businesses they own, and move somewhere less hostile. Every single one.

            We’ll take them.

          3. Larry, I recall that Trump tried your solution a couple years ago. He said, put all the illegal immigrants on a bus to sanctuary state California, where they are wanted. California suddenly raised a hue and cry.

          4. I didn’t say legal immigrants. I said all immigrants.

            And I didn’t mean just California.

            Let’s end the nonsense that the hostility to immigrants, for those who have it, is limited to those who did not follow the immigration laws.

            Part of this whole issue is that immigrants have started going to places that don’t like people from outside. They used to spend 100 years or so in gateway areas where there is less hostility.

          5. ‘immigrants have started going to places that don’t like people from outside’

            Like Tucson? We call em illegals down here. Cuz that’s what they are. Have you been to Mexico lately? It’s a failed narco state – has been for decades. Same with most of central America. Go to any of these and spend a few weeks traveling around. You’ll be lucky if somebody doesn’t rob you or worse. Maybe even the police. And as far as setting yerslf up as an “immigrant”, please, do try that. Just make sure yer relatives have several thousands to send once they throw you in jail.

            The truth is the only thing between the cartels and us is the border. And these people are among the worst people who have ever lived. If you don’t believe me spend an afternoon looking up cartel violence.

          6. I didn’t say legal immigrants. I said all immigrants.

            There is only one place illegals should be sent: back where they came from.

            As for Trump being “unreasonable”, he was elected fair and square. But the Dems, in their infinite wisdom, instead of nominating someone who could beat him. instead chose to double (or triple) down on what lost them the election last time. They actually nominated someone even creepier than Clinton, who appears to be senile, and started yelling at white people, telling them they are ALL evil racists while allowing their brown shirts to set the country on fire.

            They are no doubt hoping that terrified voters will drop to their knees, promising to pull the D lever if they make it stop.

          7. Obama sent illegals back where they came from.

            With Trump it’s about legal immigrants.

            Have all the legal immigrants move to states and (in some cases) counties where they are welcome in three years, as a condition of a green card, and an illegals would probably follow. Along with many citizens.

            Just having a map shown around the world would influence where legal immigrants and tourists from other countries choose to go.

            They don’t get the difference. When that Indian engineer who worked for Garmin was murdered in Kansas, the President of India said people from that country shouldn’t go to the U.S. as a whole.

          8. President of India said people from that country shouldn’t go to the U.S. as a whole.

            Good. And don’t give me that crap about “Who’s going to code your games” or whatever. When I was a grad student in the 90s, college kids were crawling all over each other to get into any kind of computer science major. They knew there were jobs at the end of their college degree. I overheard one conversation at the career center: “My major is comp sci, will I get a job? What’s your GPA? 2.8. You’re good, you’ll get a dozen offers.”

            Not even 10 years later, I live in an apartment complex in the Midwest. The place was full of H1-Bs from India, including wives, parents, and anchor babies. And American college kids started majoring in gender studies. They reasoned: why bother with STEM when companies would just replace them with cheap foreigners? Since ~1998 we’ve been giving away the store.

          10. banning all immigrants, legal and illegal, and being hostile to those immigrant-like people you can’t get rid of

            So all those legal immigrants who support him must be idiots. 🙄 Typical liberal conflating issues and believing the MSM narrative that he’s a racist and a xenophobe when there’s plenty of evidence to the contrary.

          11. Trump ran on stopping illegal immigration.

            And then supported stopping legal immigration, and used executive orders to get rid of all he could.

            I’d say it’s bait and switch but anyone who believed the bait was an idiot.

            No different than those in favor of a one-time amnesty — for the second time.

          12. And then supported stopping legal immigration

            Fine with me. Who says we have to take immigrants? Even if they are legal, it polarizes the country.

          13. No, it wasn’t bait and switch. Trump ran on stopping illegal immigration. Then he realized that legal immigration was also robbing jobs so he worked on stopping that too. It’s not like he was allowed to do only one or the other. He did both. The underlying theme for both was supporting the working man. You know, what Democrats USED TO DO before they went off the deep end.

        2. it’s about Trump, and don’t want anyone who would distract from that

          Twisted. Run someone who offers nothing has never ever been a strategy of anyone who wanted to win something. A mere placeholder? LMAO.

      2. “All they had to do to win was nominate someone reasonable and cut out the “white people bad” rhetoric.”

        So true.

        1. The Democrats have demonstrated time and time again their inability to nominate a middle-of-the-road alternative who can capture the swing vote. They are expert at picking non-viable candidates who pass the left-wing lunatic fringe litmus test.

  14. “Wall Street’s foray back into lending to homeowners with spotty credit isn’t looking great during the coronavirus pandemic.”

    Why does Wall Street prefer throwing away its shot on mortgage loans to people with bad credit who are ultimately likely to default? Is it due to federal government subsidies, through federal loan guarantees and Fed bailouts? Without government intervention, this makes absolutely no sense.

  15. I think the Dem platform is bat shit crazy. . Why would the silent majority vote against their own interest.

    I’m not going to accept the BS narrative that I’m racist, or that Whites need to give up their culture, science ,or anything else.

    What kind of World are these thug Commies offering anyway.
    Sorry, but attack on the majority culture by the smaller numbers is BS. It’s just the Commies trying to demoralize and destabilize and topple over the majority culture to usher in their hell world.
    If you don’t have something better to offer, or even logical, than f__k off.

    1. I am fairly confident that Trump will win. What remains to be seen is:

      1) Will the GOP keep the Senate?
      2) Will they take the House?
      3) Will they take Governor’s mansions?
      4) Will they take state legislatures?
      5) Will they take mayorships?

      1. Trump is starting to seem inevitable. He handily mowed down his Republican rivals in 2016, and Biden does not appear to be as strong a candidate as many of them were.

        CURRENT EVENTS
        Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
        Friday, September 18, 2020

        The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-six percent (46%) disapprove. The last time the president’s job approval reached a high of this number was in September 2019.
        …

      2. I hope to hell the GOP takes the House and the Senate.
        Otherwise your going to get this nonstop impeachment, endless bogus investigations, bogus whistleblowers, the Resistance on steroids.

        It’s all about avoidance of the real issues.
        It will get to the point that people won’t care if they are called a racist anymore because of the bogus misuse of the Word.

      3. True story or fake news? I guess it’s up to American voters to sort it out, and figure out whether and how to factor the information into how they vote.

        News
        Jill Biden’s ex-husband accuses her of affair with Joe in 1970s
        By Ebony Bowden and Aaron Feis
        August 17, 2020 | 1:24pm

        Jill Biden’s ex-husband has accused the potential first lady of having an affair with Joe Biden and says they lied about how they met in the 1970s, according to a bombshell new report.

        Bill Stevenson on Monday accused the presumptive Democratic nominee of being a home-wrecker and says the feel-good story of how Joe and Jill met on a blind date is completely made up, the Daily Mail reported.

        “I don’t want to hurt anyone,” said Stevenson, now 72, who is working on a book that includes the lurid claim. “But facts are facts and what happened, happened.”
        …

        1. whether

          Biden is actively perpetuating the debunked “fine people” and “drinking bleach” hoaxes. He is fomenting division. I don’t care if he lied about how he met his wife decades ago.

          1. a libertarian President

            Isn’t that what we pretty much have now? A former D turned R in order to beat one of the most corrupt-to-the-core globalists. I’ll admit he’s been more “religious” than I had anticipated but given the binary choice in 2016 I in no way regret my vote.

          2. he’s been more “religious”

            He’s not been acting religious at all himself IMO. He’s been supportive of those who hold up that part of our society.

          3. “Isn’t that what we pretty much have now?”

            Yes, the closest we’ve had or likely will have, though I’d argue he backed into it rather than it being a guiding principle of his.

            Not a fan of his lobbying for ZIRP and was looking forward to meaningful spending cuts.

            Keep in mind he’s also a de-facto realtor… 😬

      5. Mueller kept the impeachment saga active during the 2018 midterms, ergo Pelosi returned like a turd that won’t flush. Then they doubled down on BLM and riots. There’s been no talk of a “blue wave” this time by the MSM which I take as a positive.

      1. Poll: Support for Black Lives Matter drops 12 points since June
        By J. Edward Moreno – 09/16/20 01:32 PM EDT

        Support for the Black Lives Matter movement dropped by 12 percentage points since June, according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center.

        Fifty-five percent of U.S. adults said that they supported the racial justice movement in the September survey, compared with 67 percent in June who said the same.

        Among Black Americans, support for the movement has remained the same at roughly 87 percent.
        …

      2. The Democrats are going to go down in flames, along with the BLM movement they decided to go all-in on.

        I’m suddenly seeing Biden ads where he stumps for white, union blue collar workers.

        Too little, too late.

      3. It’s just real simple. When a political party goes off the deep end and they can’t compromise and further want to ignore half the Country, than they need to be taken out. The last draw was their mobs.
        It wasn’t as if the Dems platforms were such that they benefit actual working stiff Americans.
        Paying for ilegals when Americans can barely pay the high costs themselves is absurd. Open borders, insane and ridicules. Commie programs we can’t afford without increasing taxes by 300 percent. Climate Change nonsense that wants to get rid of oil, beef, and your going to die if you don’t do what we say.Dem support of China which are really the Globalist that support the Dem party. Bail Outs for corrupt entities and on and on. Anti American BS coming from a Political party, you gotta be kidding me. Nancy Pelosi on her knee like the outright bizarre nutcske she is.
        Sorry, they need to be taken out like you take out cancer before it kills the host.

    1. Right, sure, the Masters of the World are going to mastermind a reset that’s good for 95 percent of the population. Sure they are.

        1. I think her Andy Warhol moment is over. She has served her purpose. I can’t remember that last time I saw her referenced in the news.

          1. Since Greta turned 18, she’s gone from being the schoolgirl savant (a media creation) to being just another shrill harpie on the left. She’s already fading, and the globalists will be looking for another “enlightened child” to take her place.

    2. (snip)

      “As we enter a unique window of opportunity to shape the recovery, this initiative will offer insights to help inform all those determining …”

      Bahahahahaha … one thing you can be sure of, “all those determining” will not include you. Bahahahaha.

      Moving on …

      “the future state of global relations, the direction of national economies, the priorities of societies, the nature of business models and the management of a global commons. Drawing from the vision and vast expertise of the leaders engaged across the Forum’s communities, …”

      “… leaders engaged across the Forum’s communities, …”

      Again, people who are not you …

      “… the Great Reset initiative has a set of dimensions to build a new social contract that honours the dignity of every human being.”

      We’ll see. Stay tuned.

    3. The Great Reset | World Economic Forum

      Why do I suddenly feel the need to hold onto my wallet as tightly as I can?

    4. Sounds like a wonderful opportunity for bankers to receive bailouts that make all the defaulted debt magically vanish from their balance sheets. God’s work, for the sake of the children!

  22. Now that the Commies have come out in the open with their Revolution , that has no basis in truth, or is it justified , it has to be looked at like a insane domestic insurrection terrorist plot.
    Any entity supporting this nonsense is suspect.
    The protests of the 60’s weren’t trying to get rid of America as we knew it. They were protesting war in Vietnam, and Civil rights for all.
    This Revolution is bring on Commie State and transform America to some Commie hellhole.

  24. Camping here tonight on private land (that doesn’t have a mortgage, because paying interest is for loosers), negotiated an informal deal with the neighbor to buy him out when he sells next year.

    Rural Southern Colorado is really nice. Just remember to have money or a remote job, there are no jobs here:

    https://www.picpasteplus.com/v.php?i=5b3ecef0a5

    1. Paying rent or a mortgage when I’m 68 years old is for losers too. I’m not worried about you — I’m pretty sure you can pack away enough to buy something outright when you’re too old to crawl around construction site. But in my area, the rent was just too damn high.

      2. the rent was just too damn high

        Mostly your strategy to get rich by borrowing was that the rent would always go up, relentlessly, dramatically, forever and ever. NYTimes spreadsheet and all.

        You’ll be fine too. You’ll end up with less, but you’ll be fine.

    2. Nice, goon.

      Anywhere near Pagosa Springs? Ever since reading in the late 90s about Wolf Creek and it’s legendary average snow fall, I’ve always wanted to visit. That, and Durango area.

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